should we tow with a grand caravan?

[notrailends]

I have a 2001 ex that I towed a 2002 Niagara with for two
seasons,I towed from Maryland to Lake George,NY to Hershey PA and more
Never once did I feel anything but in control. And I towed on
very busy roads like the Cross Bronx Express for those of you
who know the New York area. As far as A tow package the EX
already has a tranny cooler (not the one in the rad) an external one
it  has 4 wheel disc,a 160 amp alt. What I did was add a coil type helper
spring that works good. Now we have a Trailmanor 2619 I picked
it up in Dallas PA and drove it 80+ miles back to Pike county PA
And it towed better than the pop up I think because I have a
better WDH The van works great for us
You have to use commen sence,you can have the biggest pick up and the smallest trailer and still reck if you dont use commen sence  good luck

[tlhdoc]

wish I had WDH; minivan requires it, popup prohibits it,

Coleman/Fleetwood PUs allow the use of a WDH.

[SactoCampers]

Coleman/Fleetwood PUs allow the use of a WDH.

I'm not a big Coleman fan.

[Diplomat]

We towed with a Grand Caravan for about 18 months.  It did not have a tow package, I did add helper springs to take the sag out of the back though.  At the time we bought the trailer I knew nothing about towing and tow ratings.   I took the dealers word for it that our van was capable of towing our 2500 lb Cheyenne.  We never had any real problems but we generally chose to avoid long grades where we could.  We did have to climb about 2500 feet on our way home from any trip we took to the west and we really felt the trailer then.  I can't give you long term results but I am glad that we are no longer towing with the minivan.

We now have a K2500 Suburban.  Now I know how far over the edge we were with the Grand Caravan.  I can tell you now that we had NO margin for error with the Caravan!  With the Suburban I know that I am in control of both the Truck and the Trailer.  With the GC I could really feel the trailer moving the van around.  IMHO cars (make no mistake, minivans are closer to cars than trucks) make poor TV's for all but the lightest trailers.  Anything about 1000 lbs needs a truck to pull it safely.

[wynot]

test msg

[wynot]

Windstars definitely do require one to subtract weight of cargo, etc from the tow ratings.  I don't know about the DC minivans - wouldn't have one.  I find it hard to believe especially in the land of litigation, that ANY auto producer would tell someone that they can have a fully loaded van and pull xyz # trailer.  Not saying that they don't - supposedly the Japanese vehicles do.  
 
I can't tell you how much stuff I put in a vehicle before I hitch up.  Let's just say that I had 7 people (2 adults, two teenagers, and 3 little people) and there associated stuff - that's bound to be a lot different than having 5 adult males who do damage at the buffet (like me!) and their tools/toys/gadgets/food/clothes.
 
DC is definitely known for HIGH failure drivetrains (engine and transaxle) among a host of safety defects. We have close friends who think the sun rises and shines because of Chrysler products - yet they will be the first to tell you that they 'unload' (sell) their minivans, etc. before 60,000 miles so that they don't have problems and that they would never consider keeping one beyond that mileage.
 
Any mechanic who tells someone that they don't need a tranny cooler because the radiator is large is someone that I wouldn't have checking the tire pressures.  While it is common convention to put the transmission lines into the radiator for cooling, I still think that cooling is much better done with a dedicated tranny cooler which flows ambient temperature air around the coils, rather than 195 degree coolant...  Temperature is the MAJOR component of transmission fluid life.

[SactoCampers]

Windstars definitely do require one to subtract weight of cargo, etc from the tow ratings. I don't know about the DC minivans - wouldn't have one. I find it hard to believe especially in the land of litigation, that ANY auto producer would tell someone that they can have a fully loaded van and pull xyz # trailer. Not saying that they don't - supposedly the Japanese vehicles do.

For clarification, late model Windstars with tow package have an 8600 lb GCWR. It's right there on the ford towing website. Curb weight is around 4200 lbs. 8600-4200 = 4400 lbs towing capacity unloaded. I wouldn't tow that much, but what that number does in fact tell you is that the 3500 lb tow rating includes a considerable amount of cargo. Not a full 1200 lb payload, but a lot of cargo (ironically, the difference is approximately a full load minus an appropriate 300 lb hitch weight). There's no other way around the numbers.
 
Same is true with DC minivans, except they have an 8300 lb GCWR with tow package.
 
VW Eurovan has 9300 or 9400 lb GCWR. This is another FWD unibody minivan.
 
Latest model Sienna has 8600 lb GCWR
 
Honda Odyssey has 8160 lb GCWR
 
GM minivans are around 8000 lb GCWR, I believe, but I'm not certain
 
All of these vehicles are in the 4000-4500 lb weight range. So, it's a MORE accurate statement to say that nearly ALL FWD minivans include a weight allowance more than the standard "150 lb driver" that a lot of folks seem to regurgitate. A minivan would require both a curb weight of 4350 lbs and have a GCWR of 8000 lbs (this exact combination is rare) in order to comply with the theory frequently stated. Any weight less or GCWR higher than those just stated have X amount included in their towing capacity. There's no other way around the math when the GCWR is known.
 
Towing capacity is vehicle specific and generalizations should not be made unless one specifically knows the weights, calculations, and assumptions that went into that specific vehicle.

[woodthumb]

This country is great ain't it ?  So many have different opinions, and we all treat each of them so graciously.... the Chrysler 3.8 vans come with a 14 quart cooling system with twin electric variable speed rad fans controlled by the vehicle's VCM. Under normal circumstances, towing within the 4000 lb range, my mechanic was simply stating the cooling power of these vans are more than sufficient to handle keeping the tran fluid at or below breakdown temps. I have never seen my temp gauge above half way.  And now with 100000 miles on my van, and towing our camper for four years with no aux. cooler, from FLA to the NC mountains and all points between, I am inclined to think he is correct.  Of course, an aux. cooler would only improve the situation and I am considering it now that we have so many miles.  By the way, he is the lead mechanic at our Sherrif's Dept. garage and a top notch tech.  And just a little add.....  I am one that thinks repacking wheel bearings every year is also very un-needed.  I have yet to re-pack mine and they run cool to the touch at every stop.  So many campers seem to only create undo problems when they have this service done.  I will let all know if I have a problem with either . I have been wrong before ......... once.   Your turn..... Thanks

[wynot]

This country is great ain't it ? So many have different opinions, and we all treat each of them so graciously.... the Chrysler 3.8 vans come with a 14 quart cooling system with twin electric variable speed rad fans controlled by the vehicle's VCM. Under normal circumstances, towing within the 4000 lb range, my mechanic was simply stating the cooling power of these vans are more than sufficient to handle keeping the tran fluid at or below breakdown temps. I have never seen my temp gauge above half way. And now with 100000 miles on my van, and towing our camper for four years with no aux. cooler, from FLA to the NC mountains and all points between, I am inclined to think he is correct. Of course, an aux. cooler would only improve the situation and I am considering it now that we have so many miles. By the way, he is the lead mechanic at our Sherrif's Dept. garage and a top notch tech. And just a little add..... I am one that thinks repacking wheel bearings every year is also very un-needed. I have yet to re-pack mine and they run cool to the touch at every stop. So many campers seem to only create undo problems when they have this service done. I will let all know if I have a problem with either . I have been wrong before ......... once. Your turn..... Thanks

Nobody is trying to be right or wrong AND I have been around many PROFESSIONAL mechanics who have been very lucky - usually those involved with fleet maintenance tend to be risk takers because of fleet's tendency to change vehicles or have accidents first.  It's also hard to pin down a specific mechanic with a failure in such environments - too many people have been involved.  Anyhow, I do agree about the wheel bearing repacking being somewhat questionable on such a frequent basis.
 
Anyhow, ATF is funny stuff.  I wouldn't rely on a coolant temp to tell me anything about my oil or tranny.  Here's a couple of 'why's' to that.  I threw a rod on my Windstar and was running (albeit BADLY) on 5 cylinders.  My oil which had 138 miles on it was black, burning, and had the consistency of blacktop sealer.  My engine temp was right where it always was when warmed up.  
 
A radiator has a phenomenal ability to absorb and transfer heat without necessarily showing on the gauge, and a stock radiator/tranny cooler combination actually has relatively little heat exchange for the transmission fluid compared to the gallons of hot coolant flowing through the radiator at any given instant.
 
(almost) Everyone relies on oil pressure as being an indicator of problems, but it is in combination with oil temperature that show a more complete picture.  I can have motor oil running at (oil) breakdown/failure temperatures because of bottom end problems in an engine, but because the oil is providing the majority of the cooling in that area of an engine, it could fail to show up on a coolant temperature gauge.
 
Again, no right or wrong desired - just information.

[MattH]

We have a 2003 Ex Grand caravan and tow a Coleman Utah with no back end sag or problems. We do use a anti friction sway and WD hitch.

[Brewster_440]

Hi

I was just wondering.  I haven't checked the owners manual yet.

We have a 2003 Grand Caravan EX without a tow package but the larger engine (I forget what size).  Can we tow our PU which lists 2500 lbs. as the GVW?

If so, should we definitely modify the van a little like with a transmission cooler?

If anyone has real experience with this, I would appreciate it.  If you have an opinion, that would be great too.

thanks

I have a 2000 Chrysler Voyager, with no trailer package, but it has the 3.3 v-6. I have a 1993 Jayco 1006 which weighs 1400 pounds plus "stuff" in it so I call it 2000 pounds loaded. Then there is my wife and two kids and all their crap in the van itself.  I pulled this trailer up I-95 in Florida (straight, no hills) and it was the first time so I went slow at first. before long I was cruising at 80-85MPH and almost forgot the trailer was there!!  Allow some extra time to stop, there is 2000 pounds pushing you when you hit the brakes  - I will be adding a transmission cooler, I did see my tranny temp guage a bit higer than usual and it's not the heat of the summer yet!! -  I am putting in air shocks to help the back end from sagging. it is just at that point where I feel the front end lifting a bit. (but not as much as bringing home concrete blocks from Lowes - ha ha). I decided on air shocks so I can give 'em a shot of air when we go camping and let it out for the everyday around town driving.

Also when I got the trailer hitch installed and hooked up the trailer for the first time I took it out and "drove it like I stole it" through my neighborhood - just to make sure it would stay behind me when I got it out on the interstates.

I know the rating is 3800 pounds, but personally I can't see that happening. The way mine is set-up even another 500 or 1000 pounds would make life difficult.

also if your trailer is 2500 GVW, find out what it actually weighs, look on your state title. GVW is the total it can weigh trailer and stuff in it (right?)

Here is a pic

[wavery]

I have a 2000 Chrysler Voyager, with no trailer package, but it has the 3.3 v-6. I have a 1993 Jayco 1006 which weighs 1400 pounds plus "stuff" in it so I call it 2000 pounds loaded. Then there is my wife and two kids and all their crap in the van itself.  I pulled this trailer up I-95 in Florida (straight, no hills) and it was the first time so I went slow at first. before long I was cruising at 80-85MPH and almost forgot the trailer was there!!  Allow some extra time to stop, there is 2000 pounds pushing you when you hit the brakes  - I will be adding a transmission cooler, I did see my tranny temp guage a bit higer than usual and it's not the heat of the summer yet!! -  I am putting in air shocks to help the back end from sagging. it is just at that point where I feel the front end lifting a bit. (but not as much as bringing home concrete blocks from Lowes - ha ha). I decided on air shocks so I can give 'em a shot of air when we go camping and let it out for the everyday around town driving.

Also when I got the trailer hitch installed and hooked up the trailer for the first time I took it out and "drove it like I stole it" through my neighborhood - just to make sure it would stay behind me when I got it out on the interstates.

I know the rating is 3800 pounds, but personally I can't see that happening. The way mine is set-up even another 500 or 1000 pounds would make life difficult.

also if your trailer is 2500 GVW, find out what it actually weighs, look on your state title. GVW is the total it can weigh trailer and stuff in it (right?)

Here is a pic

When you add the tranny cooler (very good idea) it may be wise to change your trans fluid. If you saw it running on the warm side, it may be a good idea to get the fluid out of there before towing again (JMHO). Be sure to use ATF-4 in that trans. It is a synthetic trans fluid and should be able to handle the additional heat but I wouldn't bet my trans on it.  Don't let anyone talk you into using any other fluid for that trans .

Driving that vehicle at 80-85 towing a trailer is asking for real trouble. You would never be able to stop that thing in an emergency stop at that speed. Even heavy breaking may warp the disc brake rotors on that vehicle. They can barely take the strain of the vehicle itself without and additional ton of weight. Just my 2 cents. :sombraro:

[GREG MOSKO]

Hi

I was just wondering.  I haven't checked the owners manual yet.

We have a 2003 Grand Caravan EX without a tow package but the larger engine (I forget what size).  Can we tow our PU which lists 2500 lbs. as the GVW?

If so, should we definitely modify the van a little like with a transmission cooler?

If anyone has real experience with this, I would appreciate it.  If you have an opinion, that would be great too.

thanks

We have a 2001 grand caravan sport and a just purchased a 2004 rockwood freedom 2270 with elecrtic brakes. I would highly recommend electric brakes on your camper for towing with the caravan. You will need it. I am using a $60 Hayes brake controller which works just fine on a pop up. Also, I installed a class 3 hitch because the Dodge owners manual clearly states that a WDH must be used if your pop up if over 1000. I bought a Equal-iz-er WDH and have modified my camper to accept it despite what the Rockwood owners manual states. The money i spent it is cheap insurance for the safety of my family as well as others on the road. Make sure you have a tranny cooler if you dont have one. As an added precaution, I have installed a B&M transmission Temp guage to monitor the tranny. Have your transmission fluid changed every 30K at the dealer only. Your vehicle reuqires AT+4 fluid which was developed and pattened by Chrysler. Local shops will use an equivilant, but DO NOT GO THERE to save a few bucks, it is not the same fluid and will screw up your tranny. When you are towing, just baby your vehicle and dont floor it to get up to speed. This is too hard on the tranny. We have had no problems and I am quite surprized how well this caravan actually tows.  Have fun and be safe !!!!