should we tow with a grand caravan?

[rsmith]

Hi

I was just wondering.  I haven't checked the owners manual yet.

We have a 2003 Grand Caravan EX without a tow package but the larger engine (I forget what size).  Can we tow our PU which lists 2500 lbs. as the GVW?

If so, should we definitely modify the van a little like with a transmission cooler?

If anyone has real experience with this, I would appreciate it.  If you have an opinion, that would be great too.

thanks

[B-flat]

You can check out the tow rating for your 2003 Caravan at www.trailerlife.com and it looks like the tow rating is 3500 or 3800, depending on your engine. To be on the safe side, I believe that you should keep you trailer down to about 70% of the tow rating. Other things to take into consideration is the loaded weight of the popup and the number of people you have in the tow vehicle. From past experience, I do think it's a good idea to have a transmission cooler.

[tlhdoc]

I towed a small PU, that was under 1000 pounds empty, with a 1996 Grand Caravan.  It didn't have the tow package, but did have the larger engine like your van.  The Caravan did a good job towing my small trailer.  How it will preform with a larger trailer I can't predict.  You should add the tranny cooler and I am guessing that you will need some type of helper springs or air bags to keep the back end of the van from sagging.  I towed my 3000 pound trailer with a Ford Windstar for 3 years and it did an OK job, but I was more worried when towing with the front wheel drive vehicle (the trailer weight on the rear of the van takes weight off of the front wheels), than I do now with the rear wheel drive vehicle.  Good luck.

[jpreiser]

We towed the first 3 times out and then upgraded to a truck.. the back end of our dodge sagged and the engine had a strain on it on most hills.. We  could always "feel" the PU behind us, now with the truck I dont feel a thing..

[MtnCamper]

Maybe a weight distribution hitch would put some weight back on those front wheels. Check that out too. Then the ride wouldn't change without the trailer.

[SactoCampers]

Hi
 
I was just wondering. I haven't checked the owners manual yet.
 
We have a 2003 Grand Caravan EX without a tow package but the larger engine (I forget what size). Can we tow our PU which lists 2500 lbs. as the GVW?
 
If so, should we definitely modify the van a little like with a transmission cooler?
 
If anyone has real experience with this, I would appreciate it. If you have an opinion, that would be great too.
 
thanks

I tow with a 1998 Chrysler Town & Country AWD with 3.8 plus tow package. I know the one you have is redesigned but the engine is the same, albeit more horsepower for 2003. A Grand Caravan without a tow package is a much different vehicle than one with the tow package. Here is what is included in the tow package:
 
1. Heavy Duty Load-Leveling suspension. An extra leaf on the springs is the difference here. Ride quality is much more smooth and solid in direct comparisons. It also keeps your headlights level and prevents the suspension from bottoming out.
2. Heavy duty brakes. And discs all the way around. Trailer brakes are still mandatory.
3. Heavy duty transmission cooler. Self-evident, and its big. You can add this yourself.
4. Heavy duty engine oil cooler. Prevents engine from overheating when climbing long grades.
5. Heavy duty alternator
 
If you had the tow package, your Grand Caravan would have a GCWR of 8600 lbs. Subtract a curb weight of around 4200 lbs and that would leave you with technically a tow capacity of over 4000 lbs. So what that means is the tow capacity allows for quite a bit of people, cargo, and luggage inside. Without the tow package you're in the 6500 range, IIRC.
 
The problem here is that you don't have the tow package. The bigger engine doesn't mean much if it can't stay cool. I have found that even with the tow package, towing my 2300 lb popup and fully loaded minivan 2 adults, one kid, lots of luggage) that my temperature gauge inches its way up on long grades at altitude. So I turn off the air conditioner. Under most circumstances, even mild grades it doesn't budge. But without the tow package, I would hate to think what my temperature gauge would be doing.
 
I am comfortable towing with my T&C. I can hold 50+ on the steepest 4-lane highway grades at 7000+ feet in second gear without straining. I would even be willing to go with a heavier popup because I know our weights and what we bring along with us. However, without the tow package, I would be more hesitant. Contrary to others, I WANT to know I have a trailer back there. And I do, but I think I have a good combination right now.
 
The EX is a good minivan, but the drawback is that none of them are equipped with the tow package which I think is crucial for towing a 2500 lb popup.
 
My recommendation: With a 2500 lb popup, you will be over your GCWR for a Grand Caravan without the tow package, and I can't recommend you do that.
 
You may also find my website helpful:
 
http://sactocampers.tripod.com/sactocamperswebpage/id18.html

[mike4947]

Mopar minivans are probably the most often questioned van on their towing ability. With the towing package, which IIRC also includes a full size spare as some of the not towing package ones use a space saver. ( a ful size spare is another must have, the space savers aren't designed to have the extra load plaed on them towing added and they fail quickly) They have a GCWR that allows for 3500-3800 pounds of weight total in the van and towed weight. Without the towing package it drops to between 1700-2100 pounds total weight.

Both of these are over the base vehicle with no options and only a 150 pound driver allowance. SO all your passengers, dogs, roof racks, bikes, coolers, clothes, and even the receiver's weights all have to be subtracted from the fantasy tow rating.
 
So I have to go with Sacto on this one. Without the towing package and normal options and passenger load you're down to around a 1000 pound gross trailer weight. No hard top PU today will come in under 1000 pounds ready to camp.
 
Many people do use them, some are lucky and tow for years without a problem. Others go through transmissions like they were $20 a piece, and still others have ended up in accidents where the combo just couldn't handle the conditions on the road.
It up to you, but IMHO, my family is worth thatever I had to do to tow with a safe as possible combination.

[SactoCampers]

Both of these are over the base vehicle with no options and only a 150 pound driver allowance. SO all your passengers, dogs, roof racks, bikes, coolers, clothes, and even the receiver's weights all have to be subtracted from the fantasy tow rating.
 

I have to correct Mike on this one as it's a common misconception and is frequently repeated on this and other boards. The DC minivan with tow package tow capacity includes 600 pounds of people, cargo, and luggage. The math is quite simple:
 
2003 DC minivan with tow package GCWR = 8600
Typical DC minivan curb weight = 4200 lbs
 
GCWR - Curb Weight = 4400 lbs = tow capacity
 
3800 lb stated tow capacity + 600 lbs people/cargo = 4400 lbs
 
4400 lbs + 4200 lbs = 8600 lbs
 
No way to argue with those numbers unless my curb weight estimate is off by 600 lbs. My AWD minivan weighs in at 4500 lbs. Literature I've read states AWD adds about 300 lbs, so my curb weight estimate for FWD minivan should be fairly accurate.
 
The DC website even states it includes x number of people included in the van.
 
Same is true for Ford Windstar and the new Toyota Sienna. I don't know why so many people claim you must subtract any weight from the tow capacity. It simply isn't true in the cases I've mentioned.
 
 
 
 
 
 

Many people do use them, some are lucky and tow for years without a problem. Others go through transmissions like they were $20 a piece, and still others have ended up in accidents where the combo just couldn't handle the conditions on the road.
It up to you, but IMHO, my family is worth thatever I had to do to tow with a safe as possible combination.

I think the safety issue here is overrated. The vehicle with tow package can easily handle 2500 lbs and as much as 3000 lbs without safety being an issue. That's why they provide the tow capacities, safety is supposed to be a factor, at least that's the angle of the conservative advice in this and other forums. Can't use lack of safety as an argument when the numbers don't support it. Even without the tow package, I don't think safety is the issue, reliability is. No reason why a DC minivan with TP can't handle a properly balanced popup in the 3000 lb and under range. Quite frankly, I'd rather tow with my minivan than a mid-size SUV. Lower center of gravity, wider stance, and longer wheelbase all contribute to better towing manners.
 
The issue of transmissions and FWD minivans (DC minivans in particular) frequently surfaces as a reason not to tow with them. For DC minivans, the point is moot because the transmissions are prone to premature failure whether you tow with them or not. So if you own one (they were supposed to be improved the past couple of years) and don't want to get rid of it, tow with it. If it's going to fail, it will do so regardless of whether you tow. I would get an extended warranty with one of these vans anyway. I've made over $4000 in claims on my $1000 warranty.

[MommaMia]

For DC minivans, the point is moot because the transmissions are prone to premature failure whether you tow with them or not. .

You said a mouthful there!  We had one the transmission blew on TWICE in 3 months for no apparent reason.  two whole separate transmission.  No rebuilds.

[mikewilley]

Our first tow vehicle was a 97 Grand Caravan EX with the big engine.  We had no problems with power or brakes pulling our Coleman Santa Fe.  We did get significant back end sag (which we probably could have fixed with a WD hitch).  The thing that concerned me most was the transmission controller.  I had to really watch the RPMs when we were going up steep grades.  The transmission would often slip out of lock, which is the cause of transmission overheating.

We created a spreadsheet for our van that plotted RPM vs speed for all the transmission gears so I could periodically check to make sure the transmission was locked. We did great, just down shift anytime the transmission slipped out of lock and wala happy van  :S !

The bottom line for me, is that without the tow package, your transmission is very venerable (and expensive to fix if you mess it up ).

BTW don't forget the brake controller and for my money the Prodigy is the best.

cheers,

[abbear]

OK - now for the other side of the coin.  With a 96 3.3L v6 Grand Caravan with no tow package we have towed over 15000 miles in the month of August of 03 alone.  Two trips - one crossed the cascades 5 times, the other crossed the sierra and  meandered through the rockies in Idaho and Montana.  Our trailer weighs in at 2500 lbs.

Now for the messy details.  1.  Read the owners manual.  It will tell you (among other things) to use a weight distributing hitch if your trailer is over 1000 lbs.  That hitch will take care of the sag by distributing weight onto the front axle.  Sorry, Sacto, but my experience with the Nivomat self leveling shock on has been less than confidence building.  I have heavy duty KYB shocks and with the distributing hitch we haul just fine.

2. Tow package.  Make your own if you are so inclined.  Many of us have installed oil coolers and heavy duty alternators.  That is what most tow packages are.  If you have the proper brake controller installed (Prodigy) and have adjusted it properly the the trailer will put minimal strain on the tow vehicle brake systems.  Change the trannny fluid every 15,000 miles.  Baby it a little...3000 mile oil changes, proper servicing, etc.

3.  Use commmon sense when towing.  I have pulled many long steep grades without overheating.  When I did see the needle start to move I slowed down to about 45 and made sure I had the tranny shifted to 3.  If the needle still moves turn on the heater and turn off the a/c.  Know how much your rig weighs, how much you and your family weigh, luggage etc.  

If you can do all those things, have fun towing.  If not - buy a new tow vehicle

By the way, when I finished the 2nd trip our van had 120,000 miles on it.  I have now moved it into semi-retirement with my new Vue taking on the majority of the towing chores.

Hope this helps

[woodthumb]

We have been towing our Santee ( 2200lbs loaded ) for four years with our 97 T and C van.  We have the 3.8 but no tow package.  It has been great and most of time, I don't even know the camper is back there.  Am thinkin about adding a tranny cooler this spring tho, altho my mechanic says its really not needed because the radiators in these vans are so large. Tow rating on my van is 4000.  Happy campin

[brainpause]

Am thinkin about adding a tranny cooler this spring tho, altho my mechanic says its really not needed because the radiators in these vans are so large.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the van's radiator size irrelevant to the need of a tranny cooler? IIRC, some vehicles do have some type of tranny cooler running around the radiator; however, it would seem completely independent and irrelevant if it doesn't. Somebody enlighten me? Or maybe confirm my suspicions?
 
Larry

[abbear]

My Grand Caravan has a tranny cooler that  is incorporated in the radiator however I felt it would be prudent to add another.

[SactoCampers]

Abbear is right, if you can add the towing package components, then that would upgrade your GCWR to 8600 lbs and the popup would be no problem for that minivan. His experience is with load leveling shocks, engine oil cooler and WDH. I wish I had WDH; minivan requires it, popup prohibits it, so I don't use it. Minivan doesn't seem to have a problem with my tongue weight near 350 lbs. Keep in mind there's only three of us, a dog, and I remove our rear bench and one second row captain's chair to save weight.
 
I have had no problems whatsoever with the stock mechanical load-leveling suspension. Other difference is that the axle is heavier duty. I have compared it with non tow-package DC minivans and there is an extra leaf. I don't know what effect this has on the RAWR, however.