solar

[Tim]

For those of you who have solar, I am looking for advice.  I have a 2004 Fleetwood Bayside and want to add a panel.  Should I permanently mount it on the roof and if so how should I run the wiring into the camper considering the panel and wiring will raise up and down with the roof.  I was thinking of installing a charge regulater inside the camper and the running my connections under the camper on the chassis to my battery.  Also, I am using an Optima group 31 AGM spiral cell battery, but am considering adding or 2nd battery or changing to 2 6V batteries connected in series.  Is there any benefit one way or the other with 2 12V batteries connected in parralel vs. 2 6V batteries conected in series?  I do almost all dry camping and want to increase the time I can spend in the woods without running out of juice.  Thanks for any help!!!

Tim
Appleton, WI
2004 Bayside
2002 Dodge Durango

[ForestCreature]

Hi Tim
 
 Welcome to the board, we have solar on the Aliner. We opted for a portable system. Mounting the solar on top seemed to defeat any purpose for us. Having it portable allows us to place the panels in the sunny spots while we are camped comfortably in the shade.
 Here is a link to another thread that has pics of what we did  with our 45 watt system. http://www.arveeclub.com/showthread.php?t=53725
 
 There are also a few other links to solar information in that thread that you'll find helpful.
 
 Our battery is inside the camper, the charge controler is mounted inside the battery compartment. We then ran the wiring out underneath to the tongue and installed a connection there to plug the solar in. We have approximantely 75 ft of heavy gauge wire connected to the panel and have no loss of power from that length. Of course being free standing there is a slight worry about theft, to date the only issue we have had with our solar was not from the human kind.
 
 Hooking up solar to the roof on your pop up would be much different than if we mounted to the roof, maybe someone with that type of set up will chime in.
 
 I'm no battery expert, but seeing as you already have the 12v, I'd just add to that if you find it necessary. We have 1 battery, the solar has kept up with our use quite well.
 
 Do you have any idea of how much solar power you need?  Your usage will determine what wattage you'll require.
 Here is a link to a page that will help you calculate how many watts you would need.
 http://www.icpsolar.com/solar-calculator.php3

[chasd60]

I think what forestcreature did is the ideal setup if you don't have a large amount of panels. I mounted them to my roof of my hybrid and did not use tilting mounts. All of the research I did led me to believe they would not be worth the money for the gain. You still need to orient your camper a certain direction to take advantage of the tilt and it is another thing to put up and take down on each trip. May not be so bad on a popup because the roof lowers to meet you.
 
I have 2-80W panels on my roof now with 2 more to be installed this year and that would be way to much to be portable. I was able to run my wires down my refrigerator vent on the roof but it isn't an option with a popup.
 
The dual 6V batteries tend to be a heartier setup than dual 12V. The 6V deep cycle batteries are not an offshoot of a 12V starting battery they are a pure deep cycle. The plates in the 6V are thicker and they can handle lower and more frequent discharges.
 
Rule of thumb;
Never exceed 50% depth of discharge and you will get plenty of life out of your batteries.
 
Most people believe they can take the wattage of the panel and divide by 12V to obtain maximum charging current, this isn't true. An 80W panel like mine is rated with a 17.3V output. That would be 80/17.3= 4.62A maximum if you actually used 17.3V. I think best case would be about 13V which would be 75% of the rated current=3.46A actual charging capability at full sun in ideal conditions. Look for what they call an MPPT charge controller, this can give you up to 30% more charge current, ie 17.3V=4.62 and 13V=5.8A under ideal conditions.
 
230A/H capacity battery will yield about 115A/H at 50% DOD, less in the winter.

[Tim]

Thanks for the replies!!  It is great to be able to talk to someone that really has an interest in my questions and what I am trying to accomplish.  I do not know technically how many watts/amps/volts that I need, but I do know that my current battery (Optima group 31 w/ 155 reserve amp capacity) will last 2 days when dry camping in spring and fall when running my furnace fan.  By day 3, I am running out of power.  The folks at Batteries Plus said the best battery I could buy was the Optima for vibration resistance, durability, and matched a "true deep cell battery" in performance.  

I am trying to reach electric outlet independence for 7-10 days for camping, fishing, hunting in N. Wisconsin and the UP of Michigan.  I use interior lights, furnace (supplemented with Mr. Buddy propane heater) , O2/co2 monitor, and water pump.  I was thinking that by adding a 110 watt solar panel and increasing my battery bank that I could be somewhat electric independent.  I am trying to stay away from the generator option, but am not completely opposed to it if that is the most sensible option....

Any other thoughts or comment or very much appreciated as I am new to PU's.

[ForestCreature]

I do not know technically how many watts/amps/volts that I need,

That's ok...neither do I
 
 I do know that  our requirements are very minimal. We first started out with a 15 W panel. That just barely kept up during optimal conditions, leaving the battery low during the cloudy stretches. When our panel got destroyed during the night by a cranky a bear in the UP, we took that opportunity and upgraded to 45 W.  
 
 We have gone out for as long as 3 weeks and the battery maintained a full charge daily.
 
 I'll take a half educated guess and say the 100+ watts should do fine long as you don't run lights all night long and are able to have it in the sun.

[chasd60]

The Optima is very high priced per A/H. I just went to Walmart and got two Group 27's rated at 115AH each and hooked them in parallel. I think I paid $60 each, Sams Club has the Group 31's for about the same price. I do believe you can get the Trojan T-105 (6V)for around $65 but I have no idea how much it would cost for shipping.
   
 I think you may have been misled about the battery you bought. The battery you have has a reserve capacity of 155 minutes. It only has an AH capacity of 75AH which is lower than the smallest of deep cycle batteries that typically come with an RV.
 
 My 2 group 27's have approx 3X the total available power as the one you have.
   See this page for Optima tables
   http://www.1st-optima-batteries.com/
   
   This is a good source for battery questions
   http://www.uuhome.de/william.darden/
 
  And a good page from a full timerthat is primarily using solar
  http://www.where-rv-now.com/Notes/Solar/

[Tim]

Thanks,

I think I will go with 2 6V deep cell batteries in series when my present battery needs replacing.  I will use it for now as it has set me back a bit $$

Has anyone mounted solar panels to the top of a folding camper?

[chasd60]

Thanks,
 
 I think I will go with 2 6V deep cell batteries in series when my present battery needs replacing. I will use it for now as it has set me back a bit $$
 
  Has anyone mounted solar panels to the top of a folding camper?

Here is a link to a guy that has and he used a 120W panel. You are gonna love his other mods too.
  http://community.webshots.com/user/ngatel

[Diplomat]

Being in WI you are not getting a whole lot of sun and will likely need a much bigger set up than ngatel, he lives in Palm Springs, CA!  LOTS of sun all year round.  For general technical info on RV electric systems and power check out Bart's 12 Volt Side of Life site. I also suggest that you check out Backwoods Solar, they primarily serve the off the grid folks but have great info for RVers also.  

Good luck on your quest, sounds like you have made a great start.  Solar really interests me but we don't camp for long enough away from power to justify the cost right now.

[mike4947]

Nick, is our resident electrical expert, but I have to agree with Jeff; Nick does get a lot more sun than us folks up in the snow belt. I also have to agree with the tip on Backwood's Solar. While they are primarily a residential solar company, their catalog (free for the asking) is besides a good idea on components, a good basic primer on solar power, it's requirements, and it's pitfalls.

[Tim]

Thanks again for all the help,

The more that I read and research, I think that I may need to rethink my original plan on electric power and consumption.  Here in WI, I personally do not have much need for A/C, so I removed the stock unit and just put in a ceiling vent over the hole cut in the roof for the AC unit.  Eliminated power demands greatly.  My problems mostly have been in spring and fall as I try to stretch my camping season with early spring trout season and late fall archery deer season. Basically, how to stay warm.  My forced air furnace seems to be a big power hog, so I am now looking at an Olympian 3 catalytic heater that will have no electric requirements. Now I am trying to figure out my best options for installation (portable vs mounted) and hook up to my propane tank. I am thinking that The Olympian unit would be preferable to the Mr. Buddy that I have been using.

I am now thinking that with my 2 20# propane tanks, 2 deep cycle golf batteries is series, the Olympian heater, and then a small Honda or Yamaha gas generator for recharging the batteries as needed that I may be better equipped for Wisconsin and UP Michigan national forest camping.  What do the more experienced experts think??  Any thoughts on the Olympian 3 catalytic heater and connections??  Any advise on a small gas powered generator??  I am just thinking this may be a better way to go considering my needs in this region of the country??  I use interior lights little, mostly battery operated Coleman Lanterns(2) and sleep at night in a nice down sleeping bag.  Again thanks to all with advice!!

[chasd60]

Thanks again for all the help,
 
 The more that I read and research, I think that I may need to rethink my original plan on electric power and consumption. Here in WI, I personally do not have much need for A/C, so I removed the stock unit and just put in a ceiling vent over the hole cut in the roof for the AC unit. Eliminated power demands greatly. My problems mostly have been in spring and fall as I try to stretch my camping season with early spring trout season and late fall archery deer season. Basically, how to stay warm. My forced air furnace seems to be a big power hog, so I am now looking at an Olympian 3 catalytic heater that will have no electric requirements. Now I am trying to figure out my best options for installation (portable vs mounted) and hook up to my propane tank. I am thinking that The Olympian unit would be preferable to the Mr. Buddy that I have been using.
 
 I am now thinking that with my 2 20# propane tanks, 2 deep cycle golf batteries is series, the Olympian heater, and then a small Honda or Yamaha gas generator for recharging the batteries as needed that I may be better equipped for Wisconsin and UP Michigan national forest camping. What do the more experienced experts think?? Any thoughts on the Olympian 3 catalytic heater and connections?? Any advise on a small gas powered generator?? I am just thinking this may be a better way to go considering my needs in this region of the country?? I use interior lights little, mostly battery operated Coleman Lanterns(2) and sleep at night in a nice down sleeping bag. Again thanks to all with advice!!

I have a LINK 10 battery monitor by XANTREX that gives everything you want in the way of what you have consumed and what you have left for AH. The system shows approx 5A draw for the furnace with the burner and blower on. I am not sure how much runtime it would actually be overnight but I would think 50% would be the minimum to use for calculating battery life. Probably around 4-6 hours per night of run time would use 20-30AH of the usable 110-170 AH from the 2 Trojan T105 batteries. This is depending upon the discharge limit you are comfortable with, 80% is not too bad for the Trojans.
 
 I camped with mine when the temps were in the low teens at night and 30's during the day. I hung blankets to block off the bunkends and slept on the dinette. I was hiking during the day so I didn't use any heat then. I lasted 2 days with a small group 24 battery before I needed a recharge (I had no panels on my camper). I had a battery lantern for light and used it sparingly. I also picked up a Grundig Radio that is powered by a crank. A few minutes of cranking and you have an hour or two's worth of radio, this also has a flashlight.
 I think the furnace would have used less battery if I had blankets on all of the walls.
 
 Open flame style heaters use oxygen from inside your camper and create moisture as a byproduct of combustion. Just be aware of that if you choose that route.
 
 There are a lot more solar resources on this thread
 http://www.arveeclub.com/showthread.php?t=53725

[Tim]

Thanks for your advice. I will probably make changes one step at a time starting with my batteries ( I have good advice and references now on battery selection and configuration).  Then energy conservation, such as alternate heating sources, lighting options, and insulation (bunk end covers and slide out covers).  If at that point I still need more external energy I will then decide between solar panels vs generator to recharge what hopefully is a good battery bank.  If I discover any amazing and groundbreaking modifications in the process, I will let you know.  

Tim, Janice, Timmy, Hannah, Caleb, Sugar(3 legged beagle) & Sherman the Wonder Dog.  
2004 Bayside
2002 Durango

[Diplomat]

Good sleeping bags should eliminate the need to run the furnace at night.  I spent a couple weeks doing artic training at Ft McCoy one January.  We had the artic tents, great sleeping bags and kerosene heaters for the tents.  At night we turned the stove off to save fuel and to keep us from having to post a firewatch all night long.  No problems, even with the temps well below zero both night and day.

[ScoobyDoo]

We keep some of those cheap shinny emergancy blankets around the house to block doors when power is off in the house.(don't need to ruin the woodwork to get them to stay up) they would probably help in the camper. Didn't try (didn't think of it)