Battery

[outdoors5]

:confused:  This is all new to me.  The pop-up is winterized for our long New Enland winter :frosty: .  However, the battery is still attached.  Where is the best place to store the battery? I have heared to store it indoors in the basement, garage, etc, but have also been told not to keep the battry indoors due to danger.  Also, what kind and size trickle battery charger is needed for my 12V deep cycle battery (I believe it is a 24).  I have seen inexpensive 2.0 amp slow charge up to larger amps with medium or fast charge.  Do I need a charger with all these choices and if so when do you use each setting.  I have also seen solar charges from $30-$$$$900 online.  Are these of any use?  Thanks in advance for your help.

[wavery]

:confused:  This is all new to me.  The pop-up is winterized for our long New Enland winter :frosty: .  However, the battery is still attached.  Where is the best place to store the battery? I have heared to store it indoors in the basement, garage, etc, but have also been told not to keep the battry indoors due to danger.  Also, what kind and size trickle battery charger is needed for my 12V deep cycle battery (I believe it is a 24).  I have seen inexpensive 2.0 amp slow charge up to larger amps with medium or fast charge.  Do I need a charger with all these choices and if so when do you use each setting.  I have also seen solar charges from $30-$$$$900 online.  Are these of any use?  Thanks in advance for your help.

There are 2 dangers on storing a battery indoors. First is a shorting danger. If you leave the battery stored in the open, something could fall across the terminals and short it out. In that case, BIG time sparks and likely fire.

The second issue would be with charging the battery indoors. While the battery is charging, it puts off an explosive gas.

The best advise would be to store it indoors in a battery box, with the lid securely fastened. The battery may need to be charged after about 6 months of storage. Just give it a 24-hour charge on a cheap car battery charger and you are good for another 6 months.

[AustinBoston]

There are 2 dangers on storing a battery indoors. First is a shorting danger. If you leave the battery stored in the open, something could fall across the terminals and short it out. In that case, BIG time sparks and likely fire.

The second issue would be with charging the battery indoors. While the battery is charging, it puts off an explosive gas.

The best advise would be to store it indoors in a battery box, with the lid securely fastened. [/quote]

I agree so far...

The battery may need to be charged after about 6 months of storage. Just give it a 24-hour charge on a cheap car battery charger and you are good for another 6 months.

IMNSHO, six months is too long.  I try to remember to throw the charger on once a month, and then I monitor the charge.  When it reaches 14.4 volts with the charger on (almost never more than 20 minutes), I take the charger off for several hours.  If the battery alone isn't still at 12.7 volts, The charger goes on for another cycle.  It's never taken more than two cycles (at the 6 amp setting) to get the battery up to full charge.

Do not use a trickle charger (2 amps or less).  Although it may maintain a charge, in the long run it's not good for the battery.

If this is all too complicated, then I'd suggest disconnecting the battery, make sure it is fully charged, and leave it on the pop-up.  Unless you are in far northern New England, the winters are mild enough so you don't need to worry about the cold doing any harm.  If you think of it, throw the charger on for a half hour when you get a thaw.

Austin

[outdoors5]

Thanks for your replies.  I still need help with what charger to buy.  Sears had many choices :confused: .  It was suggested in your answers to buy a cheap car battery charger.  I assume this is different then a trickle charger or does that mean a charge of 2.0amps and below.  Should I look for a certain number of amps, slow charge, medium charge, fast charge, etc; these are the features that sears auto shop sells on their different batteries.  I welcome all input and even possible brands/models that you had a good experience with.  Thanks again!

[The Tree Top Inn II]

Thanks for your replies. I still need help with what charger to buy. Sears had many choices :confused: . It was suggested in your answers to buy a cheap car battery charger. I assume this is different then a trickle charger or does that mean a charge of 2.0amps and below. Should I look for a certain number of amps, slow charge, medium charge, fast charge, etc; these are the features that sears auto shop sells on their different batteries. I welcome all input and even possible brands/models that you had a good experience with. Thanks again!

I recently bought one of these "Battery Minders" and have been satisfied thus far:  http://www.vdcelectronics.com/batteryminder_12v_1a.htm  They are supposed to desulphate the battery with pulses of charging.  Since they are only at 1 Ampere, they shouldn't boil out the water.  They are designed to be constantly attached to the battery.  You can leave the battery in a box but not inside your house.

[wavery]

I recently bought one of these "Battery Minders" and have been satisfied thus far:  http://www.vdcelectronics.com/batteryminder_12v_1a.htm  They are supposed to desulphate the battery with pulses of charging.  Since they are only at 1 Ampere, they shouldn't boil out the water.  They are designed to be constantly attached to the battery.  You can leave the battery in a box but not inside your house.

The reason that I suggested just a cheap car battery charger is because (in most cases) the battery will be charged by your towing vehicle on your drive to where ever you are camping. That is IF you have your trailer wiring harness wired that way.

Your vehicle's alternator puts out 13.8v - 14.6v (in most cases). I have found this is usually ample charging to top off an already charged battery.

One thing to keep in mind with a deep cycle battery. It is best to fully charge them, then fully discharge them. If you continually keep the charge in the top range of the battery, it will develop a "memory". Once it develops a memory, it will quickly drop to 12v-11.5v after droping below the memory zone. You can also store a deep cycle battery for many months without touching them. I once left my yacht in South Africa for 1 year. When I returned, the batteries still had enough charge to start the diesel engine and they gave me many years good service.

I lived on my yacht for 14 years, sailing around the world. I developed a pretty good understanding about deep cycle batteries. They were my power source 100% of the time. I went through a lot of different kinds of batteries and PAIN (including multiple 6v golf cart batteries) to find out that it was best to have (at least) 2 - 12v batteries. Live off of one battery while the other is charging. When the battery in use drops to 11.5v it is time to switch. My last set of batteries lasted 5 years and that was under 24/7 use. I ran a lot more gear than any camper.

If you really want to get good batteries that are truly hassle free and you don't have to worry about winterizing, get a couple Gel Cell batteries. They are worth the extra $ and I found that they charged up faster and held a charge longer. Interstate makes excellent Gel Cells in a variety of sizes (I was an Interstate Battery Dealer for 15 years). Interstate makes top quality batteries. New batteries that sit on the shelf for 6 months without being sold, are circulated, recharged and sent back out for sale.

[mike4947]

Wet cell batteries do NOT have a memory. In fact one of the WORST things you can do to any wet cell battery is to allow it to be completely discharged. It will affect it's life.In fact at 11.5 volts you've exceeded the all the manufacturers recommended level for discharge and are shortening the battery's life every time you do it.

[TroutBum]

Ok now... we have a guy who lived on a boat for years, and a guy with over 1000 posts (which presumably means he has been at this pop up thing for a while).  2 confilcting opinions about battery care/life.    

Those of us who are not as technically astute as some of you are left to scratch our heads.

So riddle me this.  Am I doing something wrong in this scenario? I am probably done camping for the season.  I have a fully charged battery.  I took it off my pup and put it (snug inside of its hard plastic cover/box) inside my pumphouse (to protect it from freezing- stays about 45-50 degrees all winter).  Next time I plan on using it I am going to re-attach it  to the pup and plug in the shore line the day before I leave.  I am I doing the right thing?

Let the waves of contradictory advice come flowing in...

[mike4947]

Here's a few links to educate the public on 12 volt systems and batteries:
 
http://www.ccis.com/home/mnemeth/12volt/12volt.htm
 
http://www.ccis.com/home/mnemeth/12volt/12volta.htm
 
http://www.uuhome.de/william.darden/
 
http://www.trojanbattery.com/Tech-Support/BatteryMaintenance/Testing.aspx
 
Note the battery voltage chart on the Trojan link

[wavery]

Here's a few links to educate the public on 12 volt systems and batteries:
 
http://www.ccis.com/home/mnemeth/12volt/12volt.htm
 
http://www.ccis.com/home/mnemeth/12volt/12volta.htm
 
http://www.uuhome.de/william.darden/
 
http://www.trojanbattery.com/Tech-Support/BatteryMaintenance/Testing.aspx
 
Note the battery voltage chart on the Trojan link

As you read through these sites, I am sure that you will read a lot about "Cycling". That is the number of times that you discharge and charge your battery.

A couple of simple, logical points:

1. The more that you discharge and charge your battery, the more cycles it goes through and the more of it's life you use up.

2. If you get a FULL charge on your deep cycle battery, you will get more hours out of a single cycle (that's why a smart charger is BEST). Thus, the higher the initial charge, the fewer cycles, the longer the battery life.

3. You can store a deep cycle battey for long periods of time without charging. When you get ready to use it, give it a full charge. Nothing scientific there, just years of experience. Also (logically) you cut down on the cycles.

As for memory. ALL of the websites and manufacturers will tell you that lead/acid batteries do not have "memory". My experience has shown me that is not been the case. I used to sell a lot of batteries to golf courses. They had a habit of plugging in the carts every night whether they needed it or not. They had a high rate of early failure because the batteries would not go all day without a charge, after a while. When we bench tested the batteries, they would handle a full load and hold a charge but under actual use, the charge would quickly disipate after the battery reached 12.6v. In my humble opinion, those batteries developed a memory.

Also, the other end of the spectrum is true. If you leave a battery stored for a long period of time with a voltage of less than 12v, that battery will NEVER achieve a full charge again (in most cases). In some cases, the battery won't except a charge at all, if the battery stays below 11.5v over a period of time (I would also consider that "memory"). Once it reaches 11.5 (during use), it MUST be taken out of service and charged soon. If it remains at 11.5 it may drop to "0" within a few months and never take a charge again. That is why it is important to give the battery a full charge and clean it before storing. A good, fully charged battery should hold a charge higher than 12v for 6 months with no problem.

In my humble opinion, the key is to check the voltage every couple months. If a clean, fully charged, stored battery, full of water, drops below 12v in 2 months, it may be time to concider a replacement.

The golf course that only charged the batteries after the battery was FULLY discharged, had a much lower replacement rate.

[mike4947]

What you saw wasn't "Memory" but most likely sulfation of the battery. Chargers at most golf courses do not  have a sulfation cycle that will break up the sulfide coating on the plates that reduces battery capacity. Also golf carts tend to drain batteries. I had a job way back when towing carts back off the course after their batteries were discharged. Maintenance at golf courses on batteries amounted to filling them when they went dry and sticking them on a charger if the cart wouldn't move.

 
Also A "CYCLE" is not just any time you discharge and charge a battery. Read closely on the manufacturers sites and you'll find what they define a cycle as.
Putting a charger on a battery that has sat for a month doesn't mean you've "lost a cycle".

[outdoors5]

Thanks for all the replies.  It has been helpful, even when disagreement occurs, you get to hear all ideas which does lead to learning about your pop up.  

The only thing I still need help with is what kind of battery charger I should buy for my deep cycle 12v battery; 2amp or more amps, slow, medium, fast or any other kind.  Also, is a Trickle charger a specific one you buy by name or is it just charging at 2.o amps?  I also heard of automatic charging with different stages. What is this and should I buy this one?  All input is always welcome.  Thanks again to all!

[mike4947]

Here's my $.02 worth on chargers.

"Small chargers" (the 2 amp variety) come in two flavors. A trickle charger which just keeps outputting the 2 amps at what ever voltage it outputs come hell or high water and the battery maintainer. The battery maintainer is designed to keep the battery at full charge and not overcharge/boil off water and is designed to be left hooked up to the battery full time.
 
As for "regular chargers" The new snart chargers are the way to go. After much research and searching I decided on either a Vector or Schumacher smart charger. I decided on a 2/12/25 amp model. You can have too much amperage for a battery(s). The standard is C/10 or 1/10 the amerage capacity of the battery so the 12 amp is great for a single battery and the 25 amp rate is just right for duel batteries. BUT, the 2 amp setting is not (designed on this charger to be used for maintenance. I'd rather disconnect the battery and charge periodically so the parasitic draws do not draw it down.

[outdoors5]

Here's my $.02 worth on chargers.

"Small chargers" (the 2 amp variety) come in two flavors. A trickle charger which just keeps outputting the 2 amps at what ever voltage it outputs come hell or high water and the battery maintainer. The battery maintainer is designed to keep the battery at full charge and not overcharge/boil off water and is designed to be left hooked up to the battery full time.
 
As for "regular chargers" The new snart chargers are the way to go. After much research and searching I decided on either a Vector or Schumacher smart charger. I decided on a 2/12/25 amp model. You can have too much amperage for a battery(s). The standard is C/10 or 1/10 the amerage capacity of the battery so the 12 amp is great for a single battery and the 25 amp rate is just right for duel batteries. BUT, the 2 amp setting is not (designed on this charger to be used for maintenance. I'd rather disconnect the battery and charge periodically so the parasitic draws do not draw it down.

I know very little about batteries. Tell me if the Schumacher smart charger 2/12/25 makes sense for my use.  I will be storing the battery, disconected from the pop up, from November-May or June.  The battery I have came with my used pop-up, so all I have to go on is a label.  It says Deep Cycle, 24DC24 model#, 75AH 20 AH rate, 130 RC minutes, 560 CA.  

If this is the best set up for me how often should I charge or does this stay connected and would my battery use the 12 amp setting as you noted above?  Does the the $96.25 make sense just to maintaine this battery.  If it does I am willing to invest, but just checking.  Thanks in advance.

[mike4947]

Well seeing as how that's the exact charger I bought I'd say it would be a good choice, BUT I'd head over to Wally World. Mine cost IIRC $59.

 
And yes the 12 amp seting is OK for that battery. As for charging figure if you keep it disconnected from the trailer so the parasitic draws don't drain it, once a month is more than adaquate. As the self discharge rate on a fairly good battery is under 3% a month.