Towing with Outback and Viking lift system

[linda16]

I have been looking for a PU and have seen Fleetwood, Jayco and Rockwood in person.  My husband feels he only wants a Fleetwood or Jayco.  I was very interested in the Viking (although I haven't seen it) until I read about the problems with the lift system.  Has this been corrected on models built since 9/05?

Also, I have a 2003 Outback 6-cyl 3.0 liter with a factory installed tow pkg.  The maximum total trailer weight is 2400 lbs with brakes.  The GVWR for the Outback is 4700 lbs.  The maximum vehicle capacity is 900 lbs and the car weighs 3700. The maximum tongue load is 8-11% of total trailer weight not to exceed 200 lbs.
Soooo - I've been looking at a lot of PUs online getting the specs.  How do you control the tongue load?  Is hitch weight the same as tongue load? Some PUs I looked at don't weigh that much but their hitch weight is too high, i.e., Coachman Clipper 107 weighs 1588, but hitch weight is 220. So I could not pull that right?   If I add an A/C, which I understand raises the weight 150 lbs, does that change the tongue load significantly?  I did read an earlier post for a 2002 Outback, but the terminology the various PU companies use has me a bit confused. Thanks. Linda

[tlhdoc]

Hi Linda and welcome to PUT.  The hitch weight is the same as the tongue weight.  The tongue weight of the trailer is very important to towing stability.  You should have 10% to 15% of the trailer weight on the tongue of the trailer, other wise the trailer is going to try and come off of the coupler and you will probably have a problem with the trailer swaying as you tow.  Some other types of trailers (ex:boat trailers) often have a lower tongue weight needed to tow safely, but PU trailers need the 10% to 15% of the weight on the tongue.  That would mean the heaviest your trailer should weight would be 2000 pounds with a minimum of 10% of the weight on the tongue giving you 200 pounds on the tongue of the trailer.  Another thing to consider is that the "rule of thumb" when towing, is to only tow 75% of the rated capacity of the tow vehicle.  Depending on where you will be towing, flat areas or climbing high mountains, if the trailer has brakes can influence how closely you follow the "rule of thumb".

 
Now to how things affect the tongue weight.  Anything in front of the axel adds to tongue weight, anything behind the axel takes weight off of the tongue.   Usually you have a battery and propane tank on the tongue of the trailer.  They both add a lot to the tongue weight.  Heavy items should be placed over the trailer axel.  Often the AC unit is installed in the axel area or slightly in front of the axel.  Most trailer AC units weigh a little over 100 pounds.  150 pounds sounds high to me.  
 
I hope this helps.  If you need more clarification please let us know.

[Kavoom]

Hi, I tow with an 04 Forester which has the same tow rating.  Take a look first in your book.  Forester says what percentage you need on the tongue weight.  Mine says like 11%.  

One thing is that they have substantially raised the tow rating on the later (05? 06) Outbacks to, I believe 3,500 lbs with the 6 cylinder.  Another thing is that Subaru tow ratings are "pure" ratings in that you do not have to subtract drivers and stuff in the vehicle from your overall rating like you do with many if not most other vehicles.  

One of the problems you might need to look at is what kind of hitch they put on it.  The standard Subaru hitch, I believe, is a Class I hitch which is only rated to (I believe) 1,500 lbs.  Be careful.  I had to put on a Class II hitch.  Subaru has a history of trying to minimize the towing capabilities of Subaru's in the U.S. including only having one hitch which is a joke.  

If you stick (and you probably should) to the tow ratings posted you are in the same boat I am with the 2,400 limit.  This will limit you to at most a 10 box trailer.  Keep that in mind.  My gut feeling is your vehicle is quite a bit more capable of more than my Forester so you should be OK pushing your 2,400 limit to the max, but if you check everything out, you will still be limited to a "loaded" 10 box.  

Oh, and brakes are required for anything over 1,000 lbs on my Forester, I think it is the same for your Outback but not sure...

Good luck Suby's are little tow beasts...  If you wanted to flirt with the dark side, I saw a nice (two person) TV called a Shadow Cruiser yesterday that runs 1,980 dry weight.  Tempting but not at 10,400.  I could have bought two of my Flagstaff 176 8 boxes for that loaded.

[PITPOP27]

I have been looking for a PU and have seen Fleetwood, Jayco and Rockwood in person.  My husband feels he only wants a Fleetwood or Jayco.  I was very interested in the Viking (although I haven't seen it) until I read about the problems with the lift system.  Has this been corrected on models built since 9/05?

 Linda

Hey Linda,
I can't help with your specs but is there a Viking dealer near you?  The  one we went to see was the only one within 500 miles and we were lucky enough that it was only 30 minutes away

I have to tell you, we saw the Fleetwoods first and everything after my husband was not impressed with, I of course was looking at florr plans, he was completely ignoring the needs of where we all sleep and looking at assembly,  everything they use to put it together and no one was looking as good as the Fleetwoods.  They all have their selling points, but my husband really disliked the workmanship of the viking.  That is solely his opinion, for what it's worth.

Get what you want! But just wanted to advise to go and walk inside them and shooo off the salesman as you do, they bug me when I'm looking, granted we have 3 kids with us so that's enough distraction for me lol!

Because of our going and looking around we got to see what we enjoyed, took notes and found a private party older model, a 2000, which actually has better features than the newer model, ours is on a 12 foot box while most newer models (if not all) are on a 10 foot box, so we get 2 ft of inner space ) a feature I enjoy.  I stand corrected read below!

Good luck shopping and here's to finding the PU of your dreams  :sombraro:

[tlhdoc]

ours is on a 12 foot box while most newer models (if not all) are on a 10 foot box, so we get 2 ft of inner space ) a feature I enjoy.

I am not sure where you are getting the idea that a 12 foot box is unusual.  In fact 12 foot is a very common size.  I am listing Fleetwood trailers as that is the brand you have.
 
For 2006 Fleetwood has 2 models under 10 foot, 3 models that are 10 foot, 3 models that are 12 foot and 2 models that are 14 foot.
 
For 2005 Fleetwood had 2 models under 10 foot, 3 models that are 10 foot, 1 eleven foot model, 5 models with 12 foot boxes and 3 models that are 14 foot boxes.
 
For 2004 Fleetwood had 2 models under 10 foot, 5 models that are 10 foot, 2 models that are 11 foot, 7 models that are 12 foot boxes and 2 models that are 14 foot models.
 
For 2003.5 Fleetwood had 2 models under 10 foot, 6 models that are 10 foot, and 8 models that are 12 foot boxes.
 
For 2002 Fleetwood had 1 models under 10 foot, 6 models that are 10 foot, and 8 models that are 12 foot boxes.
 
So for the current and last 4 model years Fleetwood has had 9 models under 10 foot, 23 models that are 10 foot, 3 models that are 11 foot, 31 models that are 12 foot and 7 models that are 14 foot.
 
By far the most common size box has been the 12 foot box.  

[PITPOP27]

WOW!  We didn't notice that, but it's perhaps because we were not looking at specifications of every model we went in.  Depending on the floor plan some look cramped and some spacious.  We were also looking at prices, and the ones in our price range weren't 12 ft boxes .

[linda16]

Just wanted to say "Thanks" for the input and appreciate your experience and willingness to share it.  This is a great resource, especially for someone new to PO camping.  I tried to post a thanks the other day, but it never appeared.  Hope this one does.  Linda

[hellonewman!]

Hi Kaboom...I recently got a 2006 Forester and was wondering where you found out about the "pure" tow ratings for the Subaru's.  Thanks for your help...Mike

Hi, I tow with an 04 Forester which has the same tow rating.  Take a look first in your book.  Forester says what percentage you need on the tongue weight.  Mine says like 11%.  

One thing is that they have substantially raised the tow rating on the later (05? 06) Outbacks to, I believe 3,500 lbs with the 6 cylinder.  Another thing is that Subaru tow ratings are "pure" ratings in that you do not have to subtract drivers and stuff in the vehicle from your overall rating like you do with many if not most other vehicles.  

One of the problems you might need to look at is what kind of hitch they put on it.  The standard Subaru hitch, I believe, is a Class I hitch which is only rated to (I believe) 1,500 lbs.  Be careful.  I had to put on a Class II hitch.  Subaru has a history of trying to minimize the towing capabilities of Subaru's in the U.S. including only having one hitch which is a joke.  

If you stick (and you probably should) to the tow ratings posted you are in the same boat I am with the 2,400 limit.  This will limit you to at most a 10 box trailer.  Keep that in mind.  My gut feeling is your vehicle is quite a bit more capable of more than my Forester so you should be OK pushing your 2,400 limit to the max, but if you check everything out, you will still be limited to a "loaded" 10 box.  

Oh, and brakes are required for anything over 1,000 lbs on my Forester, I think it is the same for your Outback but not sure...

Good luck Suby's are little tow beasts...  If you wanted to flirt with the dark side, I saw a nice (two person) TV called a Shadow Cruiser yesterday that runs 1,980 dry weight.  Tempting but not at 10,400.  I could have bought two of my Flagstaff 176 8 boxes for that loaded.

[roccoinmichigan]

Hi Kaboom...I recently got a 2006 Forester and was wondering where you found out about the "pure" tow ratings for the Subaru's.  Thanks for your help...Mike

Nobody can give you a "pure" tow rating, however you can caluclate it yourself, as a matter of fact you should calculate it your self before you decide to tow anything with any vehicle.  A dealer or anyone who gives you a "pure" tow rating should be shot..... because its based on a bunch of assumptions that may or may not be the same in your situation.

What you need to know is the Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR).
To calculate your combination weight you will need the vehicle curb weight, approximate weight of the people and stuff inside the vehicle, and weight of what is being towed + stuff inside it.  Add this all together and it should not exceed the GCWR for safe towing and longevity of your vehicle.

This information can be found in your owners manual, or from you manufactures web site.  A dealer may also have this information.

Good Luck and safe towing.

[SpeakEasy]

linda16, here's a little more information about how stuff in (or on) the trailer affects tongue weight. What Tracy said about stuff in front of the axel adding to the tongue weight and behind the axel reducing tongue weight is correct. It is also true that the further an item is from the axel, the more it affects tongue weight. For example, if you put a 60 lb battery way up front where most battery-boxes are found, that adds almost 60 lb to your tongue weight. However, if you were to put that same 60 lb battery further back - just a bit in front of the axel, it wouldn't add much at all to the tongue weight. Put the 60 lb over the axel and there is no influence on the tongue weight. Move that ol' battery all the way back and the tongue weight goes down by quite a few pounds. If you put King Kong on the back bumper, the tongue will defy gravity! It's just like when your kids play on the teeteer-totter at the playground. That's why it's hard for you to get a straight answer about tongue weight. You will just have to load up and then weigh it if you really need to know.

Oh, and PITPOP27 - see that Viking ad on the banner across the top of this page? Yeah, they're the main sponsors here. SO, maybe you should give more indirect criticism of their trailers. We wouldn't want them to pull the plug on sponsorship, would we??    

[wynot]

Good luck Suby's are little tow beasts... If you wanted to flirt with the dark side, I saw a nice (two person) TV called a Shadow Cruiser yesterday that runs 1,980 dry weight. Tempting but not at 10,400. I could have bought two of my Flagstaff 176 8 boxes for that loaded.

I personally would run from a Shadow Cruiser.  Look at one that is more than a few years old (you'll find them in a dirt lot - obviously abandoned).  There is NO structure to it (no framing).  Have anything hit them, and they will crumple, crack, and break apart.