Dealing with the Dealer

[Carlton]

Hello All,  (first post)

My wife and I have recently retired and are considering a PU and trips we could take to escape the southern Texas heat for a month or two.

We are considering a Star Craft Centennial as our first and hopefully long lasting camping solution. Our TV is not big enough to handle the larger TT models and the PU

[hoppy]

Well first-off, welcome to the forum, Carlton..... Now on to your question.

 In my experience, there can be about 20-30% mark-up on the dealers "asking" price on PU's. The mark-up can vary depending on the size of the dealer, (the larger dealers will be offered a lower price and incentives from the manufacturers) and the amount of competition in your area that want YOUR dollar.

  Other considerations that can drive the pricing are the time of year, (spring time... tax time at the dealer for inventory)  end of the model year sales, RV shows, etc.

  As for the Starcraft brand, they have been in the PU buisness for many years, and are considered with high esteem in this catagory of RV's.

  But don't purchase with the brand name being the # 1 consideration for the sale.

  If you hadn't already, I suggest that you look at the different manufacturers and models to find the floor plan that is RIGHT for you and the different options that appeal to your needs.

 Another consideration is the reputation of the dealers in your area. To many, this along with the matching the TV and the PU are the top priorities in the decission process.

  Hope this helps, but in any case good luck in your search for that perfect camper and welcome to the forum.

[Carlton]

Thank you for the good information. We will be back at dealers tomorrow looking at Fleetwoods and Starcraft models. I will take the time to study the service dept as well. I apprecate your input regarding the dealers as this will help me to make offer whenever we make our mind up what we want.

[tlhdoc]

You can expect to get 25 to 30% off of the list price.  Do you know anyone that has a PU?  How does the service department at their dealer treat them?  Spend sometime with everyone that will be camping with you in the camper.  Good luck in finding the right PU for you.

[kwatson51]

Hi Carlton, and welcome!
I can relate with you about the Texas heat...we're from Austin. Moved north to get out of the heat!

Until we bought ours last year, my only experience with pop-ups was that we stayed in my dad's Jayco once many years ago. We borrowed an old Starcraft from a friend about 15 years ago for a long trip (Austin to Yellowstone). We figured it sure beat a tent!

We did things kinda backwards. I work near a dealer of used RVs and as I was passing by one day saw a used PUP that caught my eye. I stopped during lunch the next day to take a closer look. I liked what I saw, so the following Saturday, I took  a buddy along who is experienced in PUPs. He liked what he saw as well. So I bought it. THEN, I started studying the various brands and features, going to RV shows and discovered - I really like my PUP. I haven't found one of the same vintage I like as much. The new Starcrafts are very nice, and if we were to replace ours, we would get the Centennial 3608. Ours is like the 2409. We love the slide-out, potty and used the shower the first time this past weekend. I'm sold (again)! My wife wants the higher-level counters that the Centennial has though.

My advice...study, study, study. And research your dealer. They will make the difference in your buying and owning experience of new PUPs.

[Carlton]

Thanks for the advice and information.

Yesterday we took a look at the Fleetwood line of PU's and then back to the Starcraft dealer to do "same day comparison". Although there are nice things about many campers, I think the 2007 Centennial 3608 is the PU for us. We hope the dealership in Corpus Christi is going to be okay... I attempted to start negotiations with a certain price in mind, but the sales person wanted to check on shipping costs from his manager first prior to discussing price of PU. He said he would call me today. I thought this was a bit strange, but will see what happens today as we again attempt to make a deal and order a new PU from them to be shipped from wherever they come from. I don't want to purchase a PU that has been on the lot for any length of time in the hot sun, and without the daily traffic in/out. My wife would like to have a screen room outside to eliminate the insects from attacking. Has anyone purchased one for the Starcraft? It seems they are not made by Starcraft, but designed to adapt to many different makes of PU's.

Thanks again,

Carlton

[Carlton]

I forgot to ask Keith how your trip to Yellowstone went. We are planning to go there too when we get our PU. First stop will be at Garner State Park as I hear it is very nice and near to San Antonio. If things go well we will then make our way through TX, NM, CO, and into Wyoming to Yellowstone. Then back down to UT and AZ where friends we used to work with are now living and then back to TX. Not sure where our stops will be yet. Maybe KOA's... any recommendations on camp areas such as KOA's or State Parks?

Carlton

[wynot]

The normal markup on popups is a LOT higher than 20-30%.  And in the used market, it is probably closer to 70% from a dealer.  Don't expect a dealer to concede that markup in discussion.  But what is being paid out of the markup is: Salesperson's commission, Sales manager's cut, General Manager's cut, the finance officer's cut, overhead (carrying costs), freight, inventory expenses, every loss they absorbed in a bad trade in, and just greed.  The money that gets given away in making a deal, usually comes from the salesperson's commission.  I lost a lot of deals because of my management's absolute refusal to move off of an overinflated "wholesale" price.  And our commissions got hit more than a few times, when the "numbers" were finalized in the back office (after the sale was made).  My most blatant example was a deal I struck which showed a net commission (to me) of over $4,000 and I was paid $632.00 for it.  When I challenged it, I was shown the "corrected numbers", and told that, well, they hadn't entered the unit correctly in the system.  These "errors" usually only happened when the sales commission was pretty good and happened to every one of the salespeople.
 
Another example, was the salesperson who sold a $400,000 motorcoach and got a $300.00 commission because of alleged problems found in the customer's trade in which should have been caught.  Yet she had had the General Manager evaluate the trade in prior to taking it, and he blessed the deal as good.  (The commission should have been around $16,000).  He (the GM) forced her to quit by doing this.
 
I disagree that a unit sitting on a lot will force a price concession from a dealer.  They get stubborn on this sometimes, and once they have paid for a unit and carried it in inventory for a long time, they are reluctant to drop the price to move it.  We had a "brand-new" Class B that had a list price of $119,000, but was FOUR model years old.  The best deal that we could make was about $107,000 to a customer.  This unit had 600 miles on it, and had never been sold.  It had the drive from the factory and the test drives on it.

[jimlinalf]

Do not allow the dealer to push you into a unit you do not want.  It is better to take a walk, and let them know you will, and look elsewhere than be sorry about your purchase for the next few years.  It won't get any better, you will always remember the time you spend at the dealer going over the deal.  We left our first dealer, went 60 miles away and saved $1600 on a new coleman westlake exactly equipped.  I know some will say about how important good service is, well to me it isn't worth overpaying alarge amount of money.  Also, make sure you go through the cabinets, look underneath the popup, see what you are getting, is it wood, is it particle board, don't be surprised later with what you discover after you get the unit home.  That's my worst regret, not really checking our the units we were looking at.

My wife and I are probably close to your age, we think the same thing about the popup.  Enough for us to use the rest of our camping times and not paying forever for it.

Good luck
Jim

[sequoyausa]

Have you considered going "used"? There are some terrific deals out there for people new to Pups. I looked a new ones before I bought a used one. I felt the cushion covers were pretty flimsy, and since I camp with kids, I wanted something that could handle that. I looked at websites selling used pups (rvtrader.com, etc.) so that I could get a feel for prices, etc. in my area. I visited dealerships to figure out what setup would meet my needs, how each one "felt" while I was in it, looked at a variety of used pups until I narrowed it down to what I wanted. I found just what I was looking for and have no regrets! Do your homework. Find what works best for you and your needs and what you can tow with your TV. Good luck and happy camping!

[Carlton]

I seem to be a little nervous today as yesterday we signed the check and made a deal for the Centennial 3608. Not quite "the one" I would have as we were told if we ordered one an not purchased one on the lot we would have to pay shipping of approx $1200. I re-thought the idea of buying a PU that has been on the lot for approx 3 weeks and we realized it's the same trailer except with minor wear. We pick up the unit on this Friday from the dealer.

I was interested in used, but could not find one that suited us.

Now that part is over and we will be planning to make our initial voyage into the wilderness next month. I am wondering about the braking system that the dealer will install on my truck. I know it is not the best model and hope it does not make too much difference in towing. Any ideas of which braking controller that would be best?

I want to thank everyone who has left great info and kind words and hope to meet up with some of you soon in our travels.

Carlton

[Billy Bob]

Carlton,

Congratulations on the NEW PU. I always dreaded dealing with car/truck/trailer dealers as it is rare to find a salesman that is honest. So now you got the hard part done you can enjoy the camping part  

As far as a brake control, many recommend the Prodigy. I installed a brake control from Reese and have been happy with it so far. The dealer wanted $300-$350 to install it where the parts cost me only $130. If your handy it really isn't that hard.

Maybe we'll cross paths in Yellowstone as we are leaving tomorrow but wouldn't get there until July 14th.

Happy Camping,
Bob

[wynot]

Carlton,
 
Congratulations on the NEW PU. I always dreaded dealing with car/truck/trailer dealers as it is rare to find a salesman that is honest. So now you got the hard part done you can enjoy the camping part
 

(Being a camper who became an RV salesman and then left and returned to his normal life which has nothing to do with RV sales...) The reasons it is rare to find an "honest" salesman is because they don't stay in the business, we get killed financially in dealing with our dealership's own "cuts of the deal"; other salespeople who do lie to the customer get deals because they will use every underhanded tactic to coerce a sale; and "customers" lie far more than the salespeople.
 
I learned a lot selling RVs, most of it is about just how blatantly customers would lie about everything.  I nearly fainted the first time I actually had a customer come back to buy when they had left the lot.  What are the words said just before you never see a customer again?  "We want to talk/think it over."  The really mean ones tell you when they'll be back.  I would have much rather heard, "You didn't have what we were looking for", or something similar.
 
My general manager's review of both customers who bought from me and who didn't generated: Knowledgeable, friendly, concerned about my towing ability and capacity, patiently explained the differences between different types of campers and what would suit my needs, and wasn't pushy.  He told me how customers truly enjoyed dealing with me, and basically then proceeded to tell me that I spent way too much time with customers and worried too much about their needs and desires and should have told them what they wanted instead!  I quit shortly thereafter because I can't do that.

[wynot]

Carlton,
 
Congratulations on the NEW PU. I always dreaded dealing with car/truck/trailer dealers as it is rare to find a salesman that is honest. So now you got the hard part done you can enjoy the camping part
 

Honest salesmen are rare because we quit.  And if they don't quit, they adapt to deal with the even rarer commodity - honest customers.  Most "customers" (Not all customers!) who come onto a dealer lot blatantly lie and deceive and think nothing about it, but seek an honest salesman!  Since most salespeople work on strict commission, if you're not interested in buying, you're literally might be taking money away from me (the next prospect might actually be buying).  Our lots had a strict policy that no customer could roam without a salesperson.  Which meant that no matter how unlikely a customer was to buy something, you had to accompany them until they left.  Painful to us, especially when you had a customer that purely was there to gawk at "how the other half lives."
 
I apologize in advance for the tone of this note - but if you've ever told a salesperson that you would be back (and knew that you wouldn't), or that you didn't have a trade in (when you did and knew you did), you've fibbed.  I had a customer one day that told me point blank that she did not want to deal with the salesperson she had had last time because she couldn't stand him, then when he followed up with her, told him that I had worked with her the day before, and that I had told her that I wouldn't go and get him (even though she had asked for him BY NAME) and that was the way it worked at this dealership.  Since we all relied on the integrity of the other salespeople not poaching our deals, I certainly would have gotten him (we had been sitting together not 10 minutes earlier and I knew he didn't have any customers).  Had I known her story was a bunch of "you know what", I would have found him because I could tell in 2 minutes that she wasn't going to buy a thing.

[Carlton]

Thanks again... the dealer is also installing Reese braking controller, so I feel better about that. I wanted the Prodigy as I too heard it was high on the list of favorites. We will have to pick our spots to camp carefully as there are so many fires and closures in the west at the moment.. its terrible about the fires each year that take so much of the great outdoors but who is going to mess with mother nature? I heard today sections of the Grand Canyon are closed due to fires.

And as far as salesman and dealerships go (customers too), we all have our stories to tell unfortunately many are unpleasant experiences and after it's all over you find yourself on the couch wondering what just happened. I now make it an important point to let the dealership know that I have done my homework, want to pay a fair price, and understand that a working relationship with the dealer is very important as well to include the salesperson. Afer all they want/need  your business to contiue with them as well.

Carlton