RE: Hybrid/Tow Vehicle

[NCSunshine]

 
Due to family needs, our middle daughter has problems, I have been looking and gathering information on hybrids. We have a 2001 Coleman Niagara and have had no problems that were not our own.
 
 I have been doing my research and here are the results.
 
 We have a 2000 Nissan 4x4 Crew Cab Frontier 3.3 V6, GWVR-5200, GAWR-2850, tongue weight-500 lbs.  Would love to get a new TV but not possible to do so and get the hybrid also. According to what I have read, we will be pushing it or over the limit.  Or I may be wrong.
 
 The ones I have narrowed down to are:
 Bantam B22S, 3147(tdw)+1583(lc)+270(options)=5000 lbs; hitch wt=330.  The only other plan half way interested in is B19, but do NOT like the corner shower.
 
 Cub C236(least interested),4720(gvwr), hitch wt.=320.  might would be interested in the C215 but with only 440 lbs. difference in dry wt. same gvwr, I would go for the one with the slide.
 
 Trail Cruiser C22, 2955(tdw)+1445(lc)+300(options)=4740 lbs; hitch wt=481.  Other models same dislike as the Bantam s.
 
 Kiwi 23D, 4950(gvwr), hitch wt=445.  Others seem to small indoors.
 
 All of these have a floorplan that we like (no u-shaped dinette), door near the center instead of to one end or the other, and the indoor space for kids if we have bad weather.
 
 Now my question is, would we be able to tow any of these safely with our current TV?
 
 Have been considering this for a while, but it has to fit within our budget or its no go.  Getting a new TV would be out of the question unless we could get one with the same payment we currently have, same goes with the hybrid.
 

[SactoCampers]

 NCSunshine

Now my question is, would we be able to tow any of these safely with our current TV?

 I ll throw the question back into your court: Considering you re currently towing a Niagara, do you think you could go ~500-750 lbs heavier, plus the additional wind resistance of a hybrid, and do so safely?
 
 Now this is just an opinion, so take it for what it s worth (which may be nothing!):
 
 Considering the size of your family and your tow vehicle, I think all the hybrids you re looking at are too big/heavy. Therefore, I don t think I would be considering campers over 19  in length. Y-Guy, a fellow Nick-Neff-Cougher purchased a Jayco 23D with the intent to tow it with his brand new Chevy Trailblazer (similar in size, but with much more power and a heftier tow rating than your Frontier) and decided, after sizing up his Trailblazer next to the Jayco, it was against his better judgement. Fortunately he had an F-150 as a backup. He can probably share more of this with you since he owns the Jayco 23D, which he now tows with a Chevy Avalanche. I ve seen his Jayco hitched up, disconnected, and set up. It is a BIG trailer and humbles even his F-150 with V8.
 
 While it s very tempting to go for the larger hybrids and you may be within your specs, what you may be unprepared for is the performance of your tow vehicle once you re all hooked up. Pulling away from a stoplight on an overpass, merging onto a freeway, climbing mountains, passing performance on the freeway, fighting headwinds, etc. Remember, that V6 only has 170 hp and 200 lb/ft of torque. It s the same engine as in the Nissan Quest minivan. So I think (again this is just my opinion) if you purchase anything over 19 feet you will wind up getting a larger tow vehicle because you will be disappointed in the performance and may have handling issues (that last point is pure speculation on my part). Either way, test tow the combination first before signing on the dotted line. Discussing which of the *larger* hybrids to purchase may be moot if you can t adequately tow them, which is my suspicion.
 
 You can always get a payment you want with your vehicles, it s just a matter of how far out in time you have to push them out. Chevy has 0% financing on all their trucks and SUVs right now for 60 months, with trade-in, you might be in as good or better shape than with your Frontier(?). With a family the size of yours, I m thinking now you should look at 19  hybrids or less, or upgrade your tow vehicle.
 
 Also, variable rate home equity lines of credit are around 4% right now, so if you have enough equity in your house (presuming you own) you could put one or both vehicles on that loan and substantially reduce your payments, since they re spread out over 30 years. Interest is tax deductable too.
 
 Good luck!

[Y-Guy]

 NCSunshine
NC I m not sure where you are at in the process now, sorry I didn t reply to your message sooner.  This is Y-Guy, KiwiFamily until they split our accounts.  Anyways.
 
 We love our 23D, and as SactoCampers noted we went through a change in tow rigs.  We bought our Niagara with the plans for the F150 and then the TrailBlazer, which did great.  Then we got some wild hair and upgraded to a 23D.  I went to pick up the 23D with the TrailBlazer and my gut just had a bad feeling.  The frontal area, length and other items just made me rethink our situation.  I came down the next day with our F150 to pick up the camper instead.  Why?  Well I did a lot of reading, referencing the various rules of thumb, posting to different groups and such.  I came to the conclusion that yes the TrailBlazer had the power to tow it, but end the end my family s safety was more important.  I based that mostly on the wheel base rule of thumb (which I ll post below).  A lot depends on where you tow, your driving habits and other factors.  Here in California with the Mtns. I wanted to feel very safe. I did test drive with the TrailBlazer at one point and it did okay, but felt better with the F150. But that said the F150 only had a 3.08 rear axel, the TrailBlazer had a 3.73.  So the F150 wasn t very strong at pulling the 23D.  Well we had changes to our family an inherited an almost new car, so we were able to trade the TrailBlazer and F150 on an Avalanche with a 4.10 ratio.  I towed the Niagara to its new owner and barley knew it was even back there. Well here are the Rules of Thumb that I came across... these are based on insurance industry crash reports.
 
 Tongue Weight Rule of Thumb.
 Tongue weight = 10% to 15% of actual loaded trailer weight.
 Trailer Weight Rule of Thumb.
 
 Maximum trailer weight being towed...should only be 75% of the weight rating of your tow vehicle. (CGWR being taken into consideration). If factory rating is 5,000 lbs. trailer,... a 3750 lb. trailer weight is recommended, etc. If 7,000 lb. trailer is stated,...a 5250 lbs. trailer weight is recommended, etc.
 
 Weight Distribution
 Hitch Rule of Thumb. When tongue weight approaches 350 lbs.,...a weight distribution hitch system is recommended.
 
 Wheel Base Rule of Thumb
 A tow vehicle should have a minimum wheel base of 100 inches. A wheel base of 110 inches is recommended for a 20 foot trailer. For every additional foot of trailer length (above 20 ) add 4 inches to the wheel base. i.e., a 22 foot trailer=118 inches wheel base, a 24 foot trailer=126 inches wheel base. Etc. However, when you get into the larger, full size tow vehicles, such as Surburban s, F-150 s, Ram Trucks, etc. this rule relaxes, as these types of vehicles (if properly set up) are capable of towing much larger trailers than this rule would suggest.
 
 Trailer Frontal Area Rule of Thumb
 Some manufacturers have established guidelines for the maximum trailer frontal area (square footage) which they recommend for safe towing. I read this in a Ford Motor Company publication I recently acquired at a local dealership. Consult your dealer for specifics regarding your tow vehicle.
 

[SheBantam]

 NCSunshine
We tow our  99 Bantam b-21 with no slide with a Ford F150, standard trans (= lower towing capacity) V6, standard cab.
 
 With the exception of a Dodge dakota with an extended cab, this is about as small as I would go.
 
 Try pulling that thing when the brake connection is shot, you will be thankful for a heavier truck.
 

[NCSunshine]

 NCSunshine
Went yesterday and looked at a Aero Cub C236, of course salesman told me that my vehicle was just fine for towing, 2000 Nissian Frontier 4 door shortbed.
 
 Enjoyed seeing the inside of a hybrid, but would not go to that dealer if they were the only ones in NC.[]  I know better from everyone here, thanks[]

[LoadedCamera]

 NCSunshine
NC,  We went browsing at the Jayco Kiwi s yesterday at Terrel Camping in Terrel, NC.
 
 They have some great units on the lot with good prices and if you get a chance, Talk with Carroll Lineberger (Tell him that I sent ya!)
 
 He is the owner of Terrell RV and very knowledgable.  
 
 We fell in love with the Kiwi 25E.  It has a slide and all the things that Kat wants in a Camper...  
 
 We are considering moving up from the Popup to the Hybrid, but need to investigate a bit more...
 
 

[NCSunshine]

 NCSunshine
We are going to continue dreaming for another year, because the tow vehicle and camper would have been too much to take on.  
 
 So until next year, we will " window shop"  and enjoy the views[][]