Anyone use these heaters?

[Fred420]

Anyone use these heaters?

PROCOM
10K BTU, Vent Free, 2 Plaque Infrared Portable Space Heater, Propane

Model MPL100HPE

Price: $99.00/ea

Online Special: $69.30/ea


Then there is this one:

Dyna-glo Tag-a-long Heater

Model RMC-8001SS

Clearenced at $56.00


These are available at Home Depot.  I know that the Mr. Buddy is a favorite choice, but they are all gone and we are camping in 3 weeks and will need a secondary heat source.


Thanks

[AustinBoston]

I don't have experience with either heater, but will say this - if they don't have an "oxygen sensor" or "oxygen depletion sensor" then using them inside a pop-up is extrordinarily dangerous.  If they say they are safe for indoor use, then they have the oxygen sensor.

If you do choose to use one, then having a battery-operated carbon monoxide (CO) detector is a very good idea.

Austin

[flyfisherman]

Fred ~  My experience with either is zero;  all mine has been with the Mr.Buddy Heater.  I've seen the Dyna-Glo models at Home Depot and they sure look good! The problem with me and Home Depot is they just do not seem to have the same kinda sales as Lowe's.  I bought a second Mr.Buddy last month when Lowe's put them up on sale ... I paid $37.50 + sales tax.  But I suppose to keeping warm twenty bucks is a small price to pay!  But I do see the Dyna-Glo has the same CSA certification as the Mr.Buddy which means it ought to put the unit in the same league safety wise.  I've had the first Mr.Buddy since 2000 and cannot begin to estimate how many of the disposable 16oz throw-away L/P  canisters that have been run through the thing. Then decided to go with the Mr.Buddy hose and attach to the re-fillable L/P tanks, which is more efficient.  You see, those 16oz disposable tanks are not entirely propane, only about 30%; the remainder is butane and that stuff ain't as clean burning or as efficient as propane!  And not to mention the fact, that using the hose and re-fillable propane tank saves some serious bucks!  A feel good thing about the Mr.Buddy heater that I've been bragging on since I've had the orginal is that it was made in the good 'ole USA;  now I'm sad to report that the newer one just purchased says it's made in China.  Maybe in the same factory as the Dyna-Glo?

As for that ProCom model, never have seen one.  I did note that it was not eligible for sale or use in California, rather that's just because the manufacturer has not gone through the California certification rigmarole or there are other issues.  I'd sure check that out if going that route.

As for safety issues ... I've slept so many nights with the Mr.Buddy heater just a heating away that I cannot even estimate.  And I follow all the guidelines, making sure there's adequate ventilation, but I have never, ever heard of any incident with the Mr.Buddy heater and CO poisoning.  Where the real danger lies with these type heaters (i.e., radiant heaters with an open flame) is fire.  Got to be real careful where the unit is placed and whatever is being set close to it.  A fire in a popup camper is real trouble, big time.

Good luck.



Fly

[AustinBoston]

But I do see the Dyna-Glo has the same CSA certification as the Mr.Buddy which means it ought to put the unit in the same league safety wise.

You have to use a little common sense with this.  The CSA and UL labels still expect use within the product labeling.  If one says "indoor/outdoor use" and the other says "outdoor use only" they are not in the same league by a long shot.

Austin

[AustinBoston]

As for safety issues ... I've slept so many nights with the Mr.Buddy heater just a heating away that I cannot even estimate.  And I follow all the guidelines, making sure there's adequate ventilation, but I have never, ever heard of any incident with the Mr.Buddy heater and CO poisoning.

http://www.battlecreekenquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070206/NEWS01/702050323
"In 2002, two Coldwater people died of carbon monoxide from a portable propane heater. In 1999, a Coldwater couple dies after exposure to the emissions of their trailer's propane heater...Each year, more than 500 Americans die from unintentional carbon monoxide poisoning. In addition, several thousand individuals are treated in hospital emergency rooms for carbon monoxide poisoning."

http://www.news-leader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070118/BREAKING01/70118023
"Two Buffalo residents died from carbon monoxide poisoning this week, Dallas County Coroner Bret Viets said...They were using a propane heater inside the house that should have been vented, Viets said. No autopsy was done because the cause of death was apparent."

http://www.wten.com/Global/story.asp?S=5951562
"A Greenfield man, poisoned by carbon monoxide, is fighting to stay alive...the 76-year-old was overcome by fumes while using a portable propane heater..."

While none of these specifically mention the Buddy heater, they don't mention any other brand either.  No editor worth his pay would risk the liability lawsuit by mentioning a specific brand or model.  Can it be done safely? Yes.  Should we pretend there is no risk? No.

Austin

[flyfisherman]

You have to use a little common sense with this.  The CSA and UL labels still expect use within the product labeling.  If one says "indoor/outdoor use" and the other says "outdoor use only" they are not in the same league by a long shot.

Austin

Both units have the same rating.  Would that make them "short shots"?

[flyfisherman]

http://www.battlecreekenquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070206/NEWS01/702050323


While none of these specifically mention the Buddy heater, they don't mention any other brand either.  No editor worth his pay would risk the liability lawsuit by mentioning a specific brand or model.  Can it be done safely? Yes.  Should we pretend there is no risk? No.

Austin

The do not mention they were Mr.Buddy heaters because they were not Mr.Buddy Heaters.  There have been junk portable heaters on the market for a long, long time in years past.  And this was precisely why certification stardards where developed in the first place.  If you had ever seen a Mr.Buddy Heater (which somehow I doubt), then you would know the unit labeling, plus the carton it comes in, is covered with cautions and WARNINGS.  And I doubt very seriously if any editor anywhere would hesitate to mention if a certain product caused a death.  Besides, there would lawyers out the gazoo advertising on television for anyone to get on the lawsuit bandwagon.

Have you been reading all those Google "chicken little" postings ... again?


Fly

[AustinBoston]

The do not mention they were Mr.Buddy heaters because they were not Mr.Buddy Heaters.  There have been junk portable heaters on the market for a long, long time in years past.  And this was precisely why certification stardards where developed in the first place.  If you had ever seen a Mr.Buddy Heater (which somehow I doubt), then you would know the unit labeling, plus the carton it comes in, is covered with cautions and WARNINGS.  And I doubt very seriously if any editor anywhere would hesitate to mention if a certain product caused a death.  Besides, there would lawyers out the gazoo advertising on television for anyone to get on the lawsuit bandwagon.

Have you been reading all those Google "chicken little" postings ... again?


Fly

If what you say is true, then why didn't they mention the brand or model of the heater?

Austin

[flyfisherman]

If what you say is true, then why didn't they mention the brand or model of the heater?

Austin

A lot of those "news briefs" were never any more than sensational ploys in the first place, designed for attention seeking and never offered any substantial facts.  Do you not remember a few years ago when an entire family died in a tent from asphyxiation and the quick news blurb out said it was because of a "heating device".  Later that heating device turned out to be a charcoal grill, but you can bet every camp heater manufacturer took a big hit on that one! Then to make matters worse, the rumor mongors then pick up the story and the facts of what really happened will be very difficult to ever find the public light of truth.

[AustinBoston]

First, I probably should have explicitly agreed with your cautions about fire.  Any heating device is a potential fire hazard, whether it is electric, propane, or something else.  Devices with exposed elements (such as the Buddy Heater or some ceramic element electric heaters I've seen or almost any old resistance winding heater) require extra caution.

[they] do not mention they were Mr.Buddy heaters because they were not Mr.Buddy Heaters.

They did not mention the brand because it means legal trouble.  If you think no Buddy heater has ever failed and caused a fatality, you are sadly mistaken.  I can't think of anything that has never failed and caused a fatality.  Have you ever known a child killed by a telephone?  Neither have I.  I also can't find a link to a story about one.  But it has happened dozens of times.  It hasn't changed my use of telephones at all.

There have been junk portable heaters on the market for a long, long time in years past.  And this was precisely why certification stardards where developed in the first place.

Do you have evidence for this statement?

If you had ever seen a Mr.Buddy Heater (which somehow I doubt), then you would know the unit labeling, plus the carton it comes in, is covered with cautions and WARNINGS.

I was at the Camping and RV show at the Minneapolis Convention Center last night and stopped at the Camping World booth.  I picked up a Buddy heater and checked all sides, and there were NO warnings on the carton.  There was a LONG list of warnings on the heater.

Those warnings are not there because the device is harmless.

And I doubt very seriously if any editor anywhere would hesitate to mention if a certain product caused a death.  Besides, there would lawyers out the gazoo advertising on television for anyone to get on the lawsuit bandwagon.

How many furnace manufacturer lawsuits do you hear about?  Malfunctioning furnaces kill dozens, possibly even hundreds, of Americans every year.  Either the lawyers haven't caught it yet, or the suits are kept quiet.  When you see the TV ads, it's because there are potentially millions of clients, not hundreds.

Have you been reading all those Google "chicken little" postings ... again?

Personal attacks generaly show a lack of substance.  And for the record, I am usually one of the first to point to Snopes or other sources when I see someone's silly panic post.

that heating device turned out to be a charcoal grill, but you can bet every camp heater manufacturer took a big hit on that one!

All of the articles I linked to were propane heating devices.  I picked three that were typical and did not require a login.  I got *hundreds* of news hits when I did the search.

Every RV made today (with the exception of those without a propane system) comes quipped with a CO detector.  Every single one, from the smallest pop-up to the largest Class-A.  Do you believe that is because there have been no incidents?  Do you believe that adding a propane burning device (no matter how safe) reduces the CO risk?

Oxygen sensors fail.  Safety mechanisms fail.  When something can do you in, there is no harm in having a backup.

I advised the OP to get a CO detector.  It is wise advice.  It is too bad that you don't like it, but the entire RV industry agrees with me.  I did not advise them not to buy a propane heater, just to make sure it has an O2 sensor (or says that it's safe for indoor use) and get a CO detector.

I also did not make personal attacks on you; I simply provided evidence.  When you can find evidence that propane burning devices don't require caution, or that having a CO detector is a bad idea, then you will have something to talk about.

Austin

[flyfisherman]

First, I probably should have explicitly agreed with your cautions about fire.  Any heating device is a potential fire hazard, whether it is electric, propane, or something else.  Devices with exposed elements (such as the Buddy Heater or some ceramic element electric heaters I've seen or almost any old resistance winding heater) require extra caution.

~ ... Well, I'm certainly glad to see you acknowledge my main point. Fire is by far the biggest danger when using these type Mr.Buddy portable heaters. Now, my "evidence" for this is my very own years and years of experience of having used portable heating devices. Also, maybe I should mention some experience with the older type of radiant heaters that were used in RV's in years past. Anyway,  my point concerning the newer style type radiant heater (the Mr.Buddy heater if you will), is that on a danger scale of 1 to 10, 1 being the least and 10 being the most dangerous ... I,  Me ... Flyfisherman, based on my years of experience ... say that the risk of carbon monoxide poisoning using a Mr.Buddy heater (making sure there's adequate ventilation as per the instructions, of course) is a 1.  The danger of starting a fire from the careless use of the Mr.Buddy heater is a 9.

Now, feel free to quote me on this at any time in the future!



Oh, by the way ... why is it O.K. for you to get all over someone for posting what your think is missing a point or at least something you don't agree with, and then when you get the same thing right back at you,  you think it's a personal attack?



Fly

[AustinBoston]

Oh, by the way ... why is it O.K. for you to get all over someone for posting what your think is missing a point or at least something you don't agree with, and then when you get the same thing right back at you,  you think it's a personal attack?

Yes, point taken.  After a few way over-the-top posts lately, I've been trying to be a "kinder, gentler" AB.  I'm glad you didn't see that last post before I cooled it off!

Austin

[flyfisherman]

Yes, point taken.  After a few way over-the-top posts lately, I've been trying to be a "kinder, gentler" AB.  I'm glad you didn't see that last post before I cooled it off!

Austin

I'm glad I did'nt either ... I'm getting so sensitive in my old age!

I'm sure you know all about that affliction up your way ... "shack happy".  Could that be settling in?  (LOL)



Fly

[AustinBoston]

I'm glad I did'nt either ... I'm getting so sensitive in my old age!

I'm sure you know all about that affliction up your way ... "shack happy".  Could that be settling in?  (LOL)

Fly

There are glimmers of hope...there is a few minutes of daylight after I get home from work these days.  Still waaay too cold to go out in it, but there is that little bit of sunshine that I can't see all winter from my cave-like cubicle.

Austin