Newbies need help repairing 93 Jayco

[kmc_78]

We need some pointers and advice on what we need to do to find the source of our problem with our Pup.  We bought it two years ago and were unable to go camping at all last summer, we never even opened it up.  Mistake, we now know.  Well, we decided we were going to buy a new canvas and awning for it, but decided to check out the inside first to make sure everything was ok.  When the hubby opened it up, we discovered we had a problem.  It's been stored outside, and at first I thought we had a leaky roof.  But upon reading other questions, I'm wondering if it might be a condensation issue?  There's no obvious leaking spots, no obvious holes in the roof and no obvious spots on the ceiling where water came in.  The droplets of water just kinda cover the ceiling.  The way I worded it to the hubby was that it seemed like the water had seeped through.  So of course, everything is wet...the curtains, cushions, canvas (which was getting replaced anyway) and possibly more.  What we're wondering is how we find out if it's an actual leaky roof or just condensation?  How do we go about fixing either one?  What all do we need to check inside?  We've not done any maintance or anything since we bought it, and have no idea when the last time anything was done.  So we're also wondering what general upkeep needs to be done yearly and things like that.  We throughly enjoyed it the first year that we got to go camping and would just like to take care of "Betty" to make sure we can have lots of fun for many years to come!  Any advice or suggestions you might have we'll GREATLY appreciate!!  

Thanks in advance!
~Kelly

[giff]

Let me first say I am a novice at best at this pop up stuff. We also have a '93 Jayco, it is an Eagle 10.  I bought it last fall knowing it needed new canvas.  We actually stayed in it a couple of nights in the back yard (kids did'nt mind the holes too much).  I have a roof problem on mine and it may be similar to yours.  The back end of my camper roof was pulled away, almost like the canvas pulled it down.  I went ahead and removed some of the trim on the roof and have removed the canvas.  My problem appears to be corners that leaked on the camper roof.  One of the hold down latches was broken when I got it so I knew that was in need of repair.  I have actually removed all 4 sides from the top of the camper to replace.  The top of the roof itself looks to be in good condition.  I also have found rotting wood at the back end of the base of the camper.  It seems like the deeper I dig on this thing the more I am finding wrong with it.  Thankfully I only paid $300 for it.  I figure worst case would be just tearing it down to a trailer for hauling little stuff (Don't want to do that).  I really want to salvage it.  I have priced out some of the repairs it need and I figure I can do it all for about $1100.  That would give me new canvas, repair the wood rot and get me a new faucet and pump on demand, along with some fabric to make it our own custom theme (curtains and cusion covers).
It sounds like your issue may be something to do with the seals on the edge of the roof or possibly the latches not being secure.  I found that when I raised the roof to start the repairs that the aluminum track that the canvas slides into was pulled back a little from the corners, almost like each of the peices were not butting up together at the corners.  It looks like the factory caulking job had broken down and that is where some of my water problems came from.  When you raise the roof check the corners on the base to make sure that they are caulked good where the trim butts together.  There is also a gasket that is on the roof.  Make sure it is in good condition.  If you have water droplets like you stated in your post it may just be how it was stored.  If you put it away and it was sealed up with some moisture in it, then that moistute had nowhere to go.  In the different temp changes throughout the year that moisture would have gone all throughout the pop up.  Also if it was stored with a tarp or something that was not breathable on top that may have caused a condensation issue.  I guess my point is it could be any number of things causing your condensation problem.  I am sure you will want to narrow it down before you invest any money into "Betty", though it sounds like you two are already attached  I know my response may seem kind of general but I hope it is encouraging to you.  This site is great for advice and knowledge of folks who have years of experience.  Good luck with "Betty".

Giff

[kmc_78]

Thanks for your tidbit of info, Giff.  I think we might have a couple of ok days tomorrow and Wednesday that we're gonna try to open it up, check it out and take some pictures.  We're having a really hard time deciding if we want to try and fix it or just sell it.  So hopefully tomorrow we'll get a better idea.  But we'll definately check the spots that you mentioned.  As far as we know, the last time it was put away, it was completely dry, so I don't think that's the problem.  But we have the exact same pop up, so maybe some of your problems are also some of mine...I guess we'll find out tomorrow hopefully!  Thanks for your help!

~Kelly

[Hunt4Fun]

Good idea getting it opened up.  Until you know how the water got in, it would difficult to fix.  I'm not sure what the temperatures are around you but if you can run the hose, you can always spray water all over and then check inside.  Or if you are the adventurous type, get inside with a big flashlight and shut the door.  The have someone hose it down.  You may not be able to see a leak, but you may hear the water coming in.  Then crank it up and take a look.

Hunt4Fun

[kmc_78]

Well we opened her up and decided to keep it.  We went ahead and ordered a new canvas from Bear Creek Canvas today, they said they were six to eight weeks behind..I don't know if that includes the six to eight weeks it says that it takes on their site, or if that's on top of, but I hope it includes.  So we took the old canvas off today cause B.C. said they needed it, boy, what a bear that was.  Took hubby and I two hours and lots of tugging.  Lets hope the new one goes on much easier than it came off.  We decided to pitch all the curtains, they smelled, were moldy and some were tore in spots.  So I get to make new ones...yay!  But once we got the curtains and canvas down, we realized that three out of the four boards at the top need to be replaced.  They're rotted and the back one pushes in from the trim at the bottom.  So now comes the chore of figuring out how to remove those and what to use to replace them.  Any suggestions?  I think we're also going to replace the wood under both beds, as they were a little too soft for my liking, but we decided to use a thicker plywood.  Neither hubby or I are exactly lightweights, so we figured the extra wood strength wouldn't be a bad thing.  I think we're also going to need to replace two of the latches that hold down the roof, I think part of the water problem came from the back one, it doesn't seem to "seal" well at that end.  Question:  does anybody know what type of roof a 93 Jayco has?  Is there a layer or coating of something that we should put on top every few years?  And what type of caulk would you recommend for all the seams and such?  Over all, she doesn't look to bad though, no major wood rot that we've found.  The floor, ceiling and cabinets all seem to be in good shape.  So hopefully the few things that need fixing will go smoothly.  Wish us luck!!

[giff]

Ok, this is getting pretty neat.  I also ordered  my new canvas from Bearcreek.  I talked to Pat and he said he would need the old canvas too.  The thing is I had just thrown it out in the morning and it was gone:(.  Later in the afternoon I called back and talked to Al and was going to give him the identification number from the sticker on the camper to see if it would help.  Al said for them it would not help but someone had just ordered a canvas for a 1993 Jayco eagle earlier in the day so they would just take the dimensions off of theirs and see if it would fit mine.  That must have been you:)!!  As long as the last 4 digits on the identification number match up I was told by Canvas Replacements it would match up (I had called Canvas Replacements to do a price comparison and that is what they said).  If I could send you the last 4 digits to my camper would you let me know if they match yours?....just for the peace of mind.  I am going to be replacing my side pieces on the roof too and I also have some wood to replace on the ends at the bunks just like you mentioned.  
I had a tough time getting my canvas off too.  That long edge opposite the door was difficult to get the canvas out of the track!  I tried a little silicone spray and was able to get it to move better.  I too got rid of all the curtains.  We are going to get some fabric and my wife and daughter are going to sew up some new ones.....haven't picked a theme for the fabric maybe lighthouses or bear/moose theme..... that is the neat part of working on one of these things, you can make it your own!
 
As far as removing the sides of the roof, I removed the plastic cover on the framing that wraps around the roof and the long sides that exposed the screws holding the side plywood to the roof plywood.  That plastic cover material in the track just broke most of the way probably due to UV damage, I figure I can get some more of that from an RV dealer.  Make sure you have all of the screws out of it and then just start to peel it away from the top and sides.  It will definitely be easier if the sealant that holds the trim on is warmer, I did mine in the garage but it was still about 35 F in there.  I just worked it off slowly making sure not to bend it.  I did the same thing to remove the trim on the under side of the edges.  I believe the screws for that were under the rubber gasket that seals the roof to the base a lot of my screws just stripped out and were a bear to get out...this will happen especially in the rotted spots of the side plywood.  I will probably replace this gasket if it is not too expensive just to insure a good seal with the new sides and base.  The aluminum that is on the sides covering the plywood is held on by the same screws but also by some tiny staples that are tough to get out.  I used an awl and kind of dug at them, they will get coverd in those spots again with the trim.  The aluminum was not glued on mine to the sides of the roof... I thought it would be.  The aluminum on the side of the camper base is glued on.  The side plywood was stapled to the roof with 2" or so staples, I pryed one end and worked my way down.  The roof itself appears to be a wood frame with a styrofoam sheet sadwiched between the aluminum of the roof and the aluminum of the camper ceiling.

  As far as the sealant and caulk for the roof I am going to check some of these sites and see what is recommended.  From what I have seen so far you want it to stand up to the UV rays and be flexible.
 
It sounds like we both have the same project going on here.  Let me know if I can help at all or check something on mine to see if it matches yours.  If you could check that number and see if it matches mine that would be great, maybe some top track dimensions too.  I was really impressed with Pat and Al at BC they were both a great help.  I am sure we will both be happy with our purchases.  I am writing this from work but will get that number to you if it is OK.

Thanks Giff

[kmc_78]

Yep, no problem, we'll gladly check the numbers to see if they match.  Hopefully they'll match up and then we'll know for sure that we're both dealing with the same camper.  How long did they tell you at BC that it would take before you got your new canvas?  I'm hoping that it's only 6-8 weeks and not 12-16.  

DH found this product in a camping world catalog and thought it might work out for the roof.  Take a look at it and lemme know what you think.  

http://www.campingworld.com/browse/products/index.cfm/Outdoor-and-RV-Accessories/Maintaining-Your-RV/Storage--Maintenance/Maintenance--Repair/Roof-Maintenance--Repair/Premium-White-Elastomeric-Roof-Coating/prodID=1414

I hope that link works.  But we're gonna have to wait until we get some warmer, nicer days to work on it.  We don't have a garage to put it in, so it'll be a chore.

But go ahead and either post the number or you can email it to me, either would be fine.  I hope they match so you don't have to worry about it.

~Kelly

[giff]

They told me about 6-8 weeks.  Al said he got a lot of orders on Wednesday since it was the last day to get $25 off.  I am not sure about the roof coating, it almost looks like the stuff you would repair a flat roof with but it looks more like a coating and not a seam type sealer.  I know in your previous post you mentioned something about coating the roof but I would not think it would be necessary if the aluminum is in good condition.  The seam running down the center and at the sides should be the only source of leaks if the metal does not have any holes.  Maybe some others have had experience with it on this forum.  I was planning on just focusing on sealing the seams up good and giving the whole thing a once over with a high quality UV Polyurethane or Silicone sealer.
 
Here is the number.
Vehicle I.D. No.:  1UJAJ01F3P1FJ0757

I believe the only important numbers and letters to match would be P1FJ0757.  This number was right on the Manufacture tag on the side of the camper.

Thanks Kelly, I really appreciate your help!  What color did you get for your camper.  My original was grey but I opted for the tan (brown) with tinted windows.

Giff

[kmc_78]

Well Giff, our numbers don't match up.  But I hope that won't matter with the measurments of the canvas.  We also got a tan canvas.  I wanted to get grey, but they said the grey doesn't hold up as well as the other two.  So we opted for the tan.  I'm assuming that we also have tinted windows, although they didn't ask dh if that's what he wanted.  We also ordered a new canopy from them, but I have no idea what color that will be...hopefully something that will match.

How's the rest of the repairs coming?  We haven't been able to do anything further yet...I hope we get some nicer days here soon, I'm getting anxious!  I'd like to have all the other work done by the time we get the canvas so we can put that on and go camping!!  But that's up to mother nature I guess.

~Kelly

[giff]

Here in NY it has been cold so I have not been working on the camper.  Even though it is in the garage I am waiting for warmer temps too.  Thank you for checking the numbers on the camper.  I will keep you updated when I get going on the camper.

Giff

[Rwethereyet]

Just thought I would give you my 2 cents. I did the exact same roof repair on my 94 Jayco a couple of years ago. I was lucky enough to have enough space to take the roof off and lay it upside down to make the repairs.  

Do yourself a favor and use pressure treated plywood for the side repairs. You should be able to get by with one 4x8 sheet cut into pieces. I am thinking that the sides are 8 inches deep but you will need to double check that. Home depot or lowes or whoever you have up there will make the rip cuts for you. It is worth the couple of extra bucks to have them do it.

Also you might want to use a bead of liquid nails along the seam where you restaple. I used a smaller staple to put mine back together because I got a good deal on a pnuematic staple gun and I did not glue the seam. I am regretting that now, so much so that I am considering taking it all apart again just to glue it.

Butyl caulk is your best bet for recaulking. It is sturdy and is fairly easy to remove when you need to recaulk in a few years. Silicon caulk is very hard to remove when the time comes.

As far as the gasket is concerned, any camper parts store sells it by the foot. just take it in and show it two them so they can match it up. I think a paid about a buck a foot if that.  Make sure you also replace the caulk tape that is under the aluminum trim pieces. I found some areas of trim that did not have any caulk tape. Not suprisingly, it was under those spots that the rotting had started so when I put mine back together I used about twice as much caulk tape as the factory had.  

I also had to rebuild the back end of my camper. I used regular plywood because I had some lying around. I just used the rotted pieces as a template and I doubled up the supports just for peice of mind. I used some left over caulk tape all around the seams on the back and and put some behind the  tail lights in an attempt to keep the water out.

If you guys have any other questions let me know.

[giff]

Rwethereyet,  thanks for the great info.  I was able to get some butyl caulking at Home Depot.  I ended up getting some BC sanded 1/2" plywood for the sides of the top.  The BC sanded is 5 ply and the Pressure Treated was only 3 ply and had a lot of knot holes and voids in it.  If the PT would have been 5 ply and in better shape I would have gone that route for sure.  I have ripped out most of the back end stuff and have started to install new pieces.  I am taking pictures every so often to try and help others when the time comes.  I was able to use one of the rear supports for a template.  I only had one that was rotted but the other two supports in the back were cracked all the way through so they are coming out too.  I also used ply wood to replace the pieces in back.  It has a lot of plys in it so it will not crack.  I still need to get the caulk tape for the trim pieces along the outside of the camper.
 
I was thinking of using drywall screws countersunk to hold the sides on the roof of the camper, do you think that will work out?  I will use your suggestion and I got some construction adhesive for the sides too.  

Thanks again

Giff

[Rwethereyet]

I would be concerned about using screws to re-attach the sides. That 1x4 frame is not really thick enough, in my opinioin, for the amount of screws that you would need. Remember, the trim piece that covers the seam has to be screwed on also. Staples give you the ability to attach the two pieces of wood together without compromising the strength of the 1x4 and without worrying so much about overlapping screws when the time comes to reattach the trim piece. If you don't want to buy a pnuematic stapler, I am sure that you could rent one from home depot or your local rent it store.

If you can't use a staple, I would use a galvanized or some other type of rust resistant screw. I am sure you noticed that a lot of the screws holding everything together were little more than heads when you removed them. When I rebuilt mine, my mantra was "weatherproof". I think the factory's mantra was "how can we save another penny". I used galvanized screws and pressure treated lumber for the weather resisitance on the top. I figure that way if my caulk job fails while it is stored I have a better chance of avoiding rotted wood and rusted screws. DW just hung a valance over the new sides in the camper so we dont have to look at that ugly green colored pressure treated wood.

I was able to get pressure treated down here that matched the thickness of the original plywood. Had I not been able to do that, I would have gone the regular plywood route and weatherproofed it myself prior to installation.