how to figure weight?

[hallhollo]

We're looking at upgrading to a larger popup and are having a semi disagreement on how much weight we can tow.  We are towing with an 03 Honda Odyssey and have four children so using a truck isn't an option. One of us says that if it says it weighs 2900 lbs that all we have to add to that is what we put inside of it.  The other says that we have to add everything that is in the van as well.  
What EXACTLY has to be figured into the weight?  Can an odyssey safely tow a 2900 lb popup?

[flyfisherman]

What EXACTLY has to be figured into the weight?  Can an odyssey safely tow a 2900 lb popup?

My first inclination is to say "no". But in all honesty I'm not that (at all) familar with your tow vehicle. I always like to restrict my comments to something I've had experience with. So let me tell you about my tow vehicles and my experiences and what I've come to believe about towing, especially about towing popups.

I come from an era where we had full framed, V-8 autombiles (and station wagons), and for the most part they were easy to beef-up the suspension to tow a respectable load. So it's out of this thinking that the easy way I figure what a vehicle can safely tow is to take the tow vehicle manufacturer's rating (let's just say 3500 lbs) and subtract from that figure what weight will be hauled around inside the Vehicle ... like for example, other passengers (besides the driver), the stuff their packing along, the ice cooler & contents, ect., ect. Let's just say that's 400 lbs. ~ 400 from 3500 leaves 3100. Now, remember, I told you I was old school ... I would then subtract a safety weight margin from that remaining figure ... like 1,000 lbs ... and in my mind the total safe towing weight would be 2100 lbs.

Hope that might add some thought to your decisions, hope you come up with the right calculations.


Fly

[wavery]

You may want to review this thread. You may find it helpful:
http://www.arveeclub.com/showthread.php?t=63454&page=1&pp=10&highlight=gcvwr

[fourkids]

Everything that goes into (on top of) the camper and into the Honda + the dry weight of the PUP should add up to less than your max. recommended tow weight.

[wavery]

Everything that goes into (on top of) the camper and into the Honda + the dry weight of the PUP should add up to less than your max. recommended tow weight.

That's close but.....no cigar :p . It is WAY more complicated than that. Especially when a vehicle is close to the limits.

The important # is the GCVWR (Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating).

Sometimes the MAX tow rating will push you past your GCVWR if you are anywhere close to your max GVWR because the Max Tow Rating is there for people that want to tow, say a big boat but don't carry a lot of passengers or gear, therefore they aren't anywhere near their GVWR. In that case, they may be able to tow up to their Max Tow Rating.

The point is, if your TV is empty, other than the driver, you cannot exceed your Max Tow Rating, even if you aren't close to your GCVWR. However, if you are maxed out on your GVWR, it may impact your Max Tow Rating because you cannot exceed your GCVWR under any circumstances.....technically speaking.

In some cases, you may find that you have a Max Tow Rating of 3500# but because you have maxed out your GVWR, you only have 2,000# left until you hit your GCVWR. In that case, you can only tow 2,000#  (fully loaded) even though your Max Tow Rating is 3,500#.

There are 4 things to consider.
1. You must not exceed your GCVWR under any circumstances.
2. You may only tow up to your max tow rating if it does not make your total package exceed your GCVWR.
3. You must not exceed your GVWR if your tow will put you over your GCVWR.
4. You must be careful to also consider the weight that you put on your rear (and front) axle. That is why they give you a GAWR (Gross Axle Weight Rating) for front and rear ***(more on that later).

In other words. One must take into consideration that they do not exceed ANY of the weight ratings on the vehicle including (and most importantly) the GCVWR. To consider one rating without considering them all is just kidding yourself.

The 03 Odyssey is a perfect example of this problem of the CCVWR vs tow rating. It has an empty curb weight of 4365#, a GVWR of 5565#, a Max Tow Rate of 3500# and a GCVWR of 8160#. I got these #s from Cars.com. Your actual #s may differ some.

If your base trailer is 2900# and you have 400# of gear, and accessories in it (AC, water heater, awning etc), you will be at about 3300# (under the Max tow rate, cool). You now have 7665# (empty vehicle + loaded trailer) toward your GCVWR max of 8160#.

Now you have a problem. You only have about 495# left before you hit your max GCVWR. You still have to add passengers, gear, any accessories that are added to the standard vehicle, then you have to fill up with gas..........HMMMMMM!!!! See the problem here?? By the time you put 2 adults and 2 children in the van, there's no more room for ANYTHING else....not even gas.

In order to answer the original poster's question, "Can an odyssey safely tow a 2900 lb popup?" a LOT more information must be supplied. In reality, one should take the totally loaded vehicle to a weight station in order to answer that question accurately. If you are pushing the limits (and I think that you are) you may want to do just that. At least you will know exactly what you are doing and you will know just how much extra caution that you must take under the conditions that you have.

In lieu of that, you may just want to take your GCVWR 8160# (The maximum combined weight of the vehicle including occupants,fuel, cargo and the trailer) and subtract that from your GVWR 5565# (The maximum a vehicle can safely weigh when loaded, including the vehicle itself, occupants, cargo and optional equipment) and figure that your Max towing capacity would be 2595# (including everything in and on the trailer). That will only allow for about a 2200# PU (with no AC). That doesn't even give you a safety margin factor.

Just to throw in a little more confusion :p ....your actual tow weight is the weight that your trailer's tires put on the ground. "Why is that an issue" :confused: you say...... Wellllllllll........when you take the total weight of your trailer (everything included) you must subtract the tongue weight because that weight is transferred to the rear wheels of the TV :yikes:  OH MAN!!!!!. That changes everything :banghead: . Now, your 3300# trailer is only about 2950# (that's the good news).....the bad news is.....you have now added around 350# toward your GVWR and more significantly....right on the rear axles. Now you can't even put gas in the car (much less carry any passengers). That's why the GAWR (Gross axle weight rating)is important.

That's why it is important to go to a weigh station and get actual weights of each axle (with trailer attached) including the trailer axle.

I know that I over did it (by a long ways) for a while. I never had a problem but I sleep a lot easier now that I have upgraded my TV (thanks to PUT members suggestions and educating me and my own research).

[hallhollo]

Um well I'm going to have to have my husband read this because I got confused lol.  
My sister and her husband have a pop up similar to what we are wanting so i could theoretically get it and pull it to a weigh station to see what the weight would be.  
Thanks for all the advice from everyone.

[wavery]

Um well I'm going to have to have my husband read this because I got confused lol.  
My sister and her husband have a pop up similar to what we are wanting so i could theoretically get it and pull it to a weigh station to see what the weight would be.  
Thanks for all the advice from everyone.

It's really not all that complicated once you get all the acronyms down.

[PatB]

We also had an '03 Ody and now have an '06. Our empty weight of our PUP is 2,100 lbs. and we get pretty close to several weight limits when we add cargo and passengers (me, my wife, 3 small kids). In fact, we usually remove one of the car seats and the roof top carrier when we go on long trips.

Basically, you'll have to get your setup weighed then do all the calculations. I found that our Ody was getting too close on the front axle limit if I wasn't careful as to how the weight distribution hitch was set.

I've attached a printout of some calculations that I did. Note that we only had another 380lbs. to spare after we were fully loaded. I can't imagine going to a 2,900 trailer that would add another 600 lbs.

If I had to guess, I'd say that 2,900 empty weight will ultimately result in being too heavy once you are fully loaded for a trip.