Roof repairs

[John McNamara]

Following the advice posted here over the past several years (my wife merely shakes her head when she walks by and sees me pouring over the threads here), I've slowly started filling in the roof cracks on my 1996 Coleman Key West. I've been using two things: a recommended ABS repair kit from an electrical supplier and, when that ran out, Marine Tex.

However, I suspect there is a fair amount of water inside the roof (when you push on areas adjacent to a crack, water trickles out), so I have stopped.

My questions are these: first, how do you get the water out of the roof. I'm afraid the answer is to dismantle it, which I'll do if push comes to shove; second, after patching the cracks, is there a coating I can put over the roof once I'm done for double protection and aesthetic purposes?

I humbly await your collective wisdom.

[wavery]

Following the advice posted here over the past several years (my wife merely shakes her head when she walks by and sees me pouring over the threads here), I've slowly started filling in the roof cracks on my 1996 Coleman Key West. I've been using two things: a recommended ABS repair kit from an electrical supplier and, when that ran out, Marine Tex.

However, I suspect there is a fair amount of water inside the roof (when you push on areas adjacent to a crack, water trickles out), so I have stopped.

My questions are these: first, how do you get the water out of the roof. I'm afraid the answer is to dismantle it, which I'll do if push comes to shove; second, after patching the cracks, is there a coating I can put over the roof once I'm done for double protection and aesthetic purposes?

I humbly await your collective wisdom.

I'm afraid that once that foam (inside the roof) gets wet, it won't dry out on it's own. It's kinda like the padding under your carpet. If it gets wet, the best thing to do is pull up the carpet, throw away and replace the padding immediately before it starts to stink.

Often times, mold will start growing in there and could become a health hazard.

I wish there was an easy way to do it, but I just don't believe there is.  

The only thing that I could think of would be to drill several holes in the top and put an electric heater inside the camper and close it up. Short of removing the top all together, I can't imagine what else would work.

I hope that someone comes along with a better idea. No matter what, I wouldn't fill any more holes.

[AustinBoston]

the only thing that I could think of would be to drill several holes in the top and put an electric heater inside the camper and close it up. Short of removing the top all together, I can't imagine what else would work.

This was about what came to my head as well; you might be able to dry it out by heating it up.  But if you live in a humid area, I don't think you will have much luck with that.  Putting an electric heater inside a closed-up pop-up is a potential fire hazard, and should only be done with extreme caution.

Caveat:  The following is a thought experiment - it makes hypothetical sense to me, but can't even be called theory without testing...

You would have to heat it enough so that the inside of the roof was uncomfortably warm to the touch, Then hold it that way for a day or two, then let it cool.  You may have to go through several heat/cool cycles to get it dry enough.  

Steam (which requires temps of 212

[John McNamara]

This was about what came to my head as well; you might be able to dry it out by heating it up.  But if you live in a humid area, I don't think you will have much luck with that.  Putting an electric heater inside a closed-up pop-up is a potential fire hazard, and should only be done with extreme caution.

Austin

Being in Southwest Florida, heating it up is no problem -- it does that on its own during the day. But the humidity is a real issue (it's gotta be 110% right now. I just think about going outside and I start to sweat).

I guess I need to reread some of those ceiling replacement stories posted more closely and see exactly what I am getting myself into. I have quickly learned the former owners did a very poor maintenance job. They basically wrung the life from the trailer, then sold it.  Sigh. The price of impulse shopping.

[ScouterMom]

even if you can dry it out - it will always be weaker and moldy/mildewed.  
even if your family doesn't have allergies, that mold and mildew can make you very sick!  

I'd vote for tearing it out.  the foam isn't that hard to replace, you will find ALL the holes and be able to patch them from the inside, so the patching will look better, and you will get a stronger, healthy roof.

We fixed the roof on our 35 yr old starcraft - doing just what was necesary to get it into workable shape for this summer.  But I fully intend to replace the other 3 wood sides eventually (hopefully this fall or winter) like yours - the wood was soggy - and even after we opened it up, took down all the canvas and pulled off the vinyl layer over the foam roof and wood, it did not dry out until the wood was completely out of the camper - in pieces.  Because with all the glue and layers, it can't get air movement around it to dry out.  When it did come out, those chunks that didn't crumble while being removed, were like cheese puffs - they crumbled once they were dry.

It's probably better to just tear it out and fix it right.

[austinado16]

I have to agree.  If you've got that much water saturation, you're just going to have to take the roof off, gut it and start over.  I think if you take this approach the work will progress smooth and fast and you'll spend less time and money with a far nicer result.

Trying to save what you have now is just going to be a deadend street both mentally and financially.........and then you'll still have to tear it off and apart!

[AustinBoston]

I have to agree.  If you've got that much water saturation, you're just going to have to take the roof off, gut it and start over.  I think if you take this approach the work will progress smooth and fast and you'll spend less time and money with a far nicer result.

Trying to save what you have now is just going to be a deadend street both mentally and financially.........and then you'll still have to tear it off and apart!

I've never heard of anyone repairing a Coleman/Fleetwood one-piece ABS roof.  To the very best of my knowledge, John is in uncharted territory.

In any case, it's not a matter of rebuilding the roof like would be possible with most pop-up roofs out there.  Disassembly would entail delaminating the outer shell, foam filling, and inner shell.  Reassembly would require finding a material that would adhere to the ABS to use between the two shells (and would almost certanly have to be a material that could be injected between them).

John: If you find something that works, PLEASE let us know.  There are thousands of thses ABS roofs out there, and it costs a fortune to replace them...

Austin

[John McNamara]

I've never heard of anyone repairing a Coleman/Fleetwood one-piece ABS roof.  To the very best of my knowledge, John is in uncharted territory.
 
 ...

 John: If you find something that works, PLEASE let us know.  There are thousands of thses ABS roofs out there, and it costs a fortune to replace them...
 
 Austin

This is what really scared me after I went out and took a long, hard look at the ceiling from the inside: There's a brace running across the ceiling, about three quarters of the way back, just past the A/C. There are no seams at all on the inside. It doesn't look like anything anyone else has posted. Right now, I don't know where to start.

I'm planning on visiting with an RV place in central Florida (Dusty's RV) on our way back from North Carolina because we have been talking long distance with their parts people about some other parts (retaining clips that go on the short end of the bunk support rail and attach to a bracket in the roof). I want to see if they have any ideas or can direct me to someone. They have been very helpful, even faxing over exploded parts listing for the camper so we can make sure we order the right part.

I'll keep everyone updated as I work through this. Thanks.

[ScouterMom]

I have to admit that when looking for a used camper, I stayed away from coleman /fleetwood because i was looking at OLD, old campers and hadn't a clue how I would deal with those plastic roofs. (I had a smaller 70's vintage Starcraft prior to this one and had dealt with wood rot before)

however, One of my interests is cedar strip canoes & kyaks - beautiful things - and they are covered with fiberglass cloth - which dries clear to let the wood show thru.   If Fiberglass can be used to make a watertight boat, why not a watertight roof?  it could be any color you like, shapes to anything, and could be lined with foamboard or paneling.  

If you need to 'fill' the spaces between the foamboard and the outer shell, what's wrong with that expanding foam insulation ina can?  I've used it around the house for a number of things, and the excess is easily trimmed away.

In fact - why couldn't you build a box frame for the roof, top it with a 1/2 or an inch of foam insualtion board, and cover it with one large sheet of fiberglass cloth?  trim the edges and put on the moulding, and you've got a new one-piece roof?

I know fiberglass alone probably can't stand up to years and years of strong sun, (With the cedar strip canoes, they recommend a new coat of spar varnish each year and storing out of the sun) but since you won't be trying to show off beautiful woodgrain patterns, isn't there a solid color paint or coating you can use to counteract that?

[wavery]

I have to admit that when looking for a used camper, I stayed away from coleman /fleetwood because i was looking at OLD, old campers and hadn't a clue how I would deal with those plastic roofs. (I had a smaller 70's vintage Starcraft prior to this one and had dealt with wood rot before)

however, One of my interests is cedar strip canoes & kyaks - beautiful things - and they are covered with fiberglass cloth - which dries clear to let the wood show thru.   If Fiberglass can be used to make a watertight boat, why not a watertight roof?  it could be any color you like, shapes to anything, and could be lined with foamboard or paneling.  

If you need to 'fill' the spaces between the foamboard and the outer shell, what's wrong with that expanding foam insulation ina can?  I've used it around the house for a number of things, and the excess is easily trimmed away.

In fact - why couldn't you build a box frame for the roof, top it with a 1/2 or an inch of foam insualtion board, and cover it with one large sheet of fiberglass cloth?  trim the edges and put on the moulding, and you've got a new one-piece roof?

I know fiberglass alone probably can't stand up to years and years of strong sun, (With the cedar strip canoes, they recommend a new coat of spar varnish each year and storing out of the sun) but since you won't be trying to show off beautiful woodgrain patterns, isn't there a solid color paint or coating you can use to counteract that?

A fiberglass roof could work. The trick is, the roof must have a certain amount of curve to it to give it strength (like a bridge). The hard part would be making a form to lay the fiberglass on. It would be just like laying a fiberglass boat hull (of which, I have done my share).

You could make a form out of very thin plywood, like door-skin. Cut a bunch of 1"x3" pieces of wood to the desired curvature and nail the plywood to it. You actually do the mold, inside out. Like laying the fiberglass on the inside of a bathtub.

After you nail the plywood to the supports, you take a fairing compound and smooth the inside of the mold and sand it down to a fine finish with about 220G sandpaper. This is the hardest part of the entire project. Your finished product will reflect the care taken in this step. Any flaws will show-up on the surface of your roof. The outside of your roof will be an exact replica of the inside of that mold. (In fact, after you do yours, save the mold and you could sell tops to others.) Then you apply a release agent to the mold. Once that is cured, you apply a couple coats of polyester resin with pigment in it (you could use a roller). That's your gel-coat (the finished, color coat of the top). Then you start laying in some 12-18oz fiberglass cloth. You run it across the entire mold and up & over the sides (to be trimmed off later).

Apply just enough polyester resin to each layer of cloth to "Wet it out" then roll that out with a special fiberglass roller to get all of the air bubbles out. After you put down a layer one direction, you put down another layer the opposite direction. If you want added strength, you could put a 3rd layer down the same way as the 1st.

After that cures for about 2 hours, you can take a razor knife and trim the edges perfectly even, all the way around.

If you really want it light and strong, follow the same procedure only use 6oz carbon fiber cloth. You will only need 2 layers but you will need to vacuum pack it and the cost would go up considerably.

Then you could put your insulation and whatever material that you want for a ceiling inside that. After it cures for 24 hours, just pop the finished product out of the mold. It will never have to be painted as long as you keep a coat of wax on it. Just like the hull of a boat. Essentially, that is what you would be building.

If anyone is really interested in taking this project on, let me know and I will give you more detailed instructions about reinforcing and hardware attachment points. However, it really isn't much harder than that. It just takes a place to work, time, patience and cleanliness.

BTW, everything cleans up with white vinegar.

[dirtracin]

After working in a parts dept for over 3 years this is the easiest way to figure out what the customer wants, sometimes the descriptions the customer uses we cannot figure out what they want, my manager calls us parts interpertors :-)

They have been very helpful, even faxing over exploded parts listing for the camper so we can make sure we order the right part.

[ecricky]

I've got one of those roofs to,and it had a nice big crack in it last summer,I tried some abs repair kit and it cracked after about a month.I had some really expensive clear caulking that I used for my business and decided to try it. It worked great for sealing it off but it's hard to get it to look good,but after the other stuff cracked I didn't care ,I also used it to put the awning back up because it slid off during the winter.It's held it really good. I can check to see where it came from,it might  have a website on the side.

[ScouterMom]

wavery A fiberglass roof could work. The trick is, the roof must have a certain amount of curve to it to give it strength (like a bridge). The hard part would be making a form to lay the fiberglass on. It would be just like laying a fiberglass boat hull (of which, I have done my share).

You could make a form out of very thin plywood, like door-skin. Cut a bunch of 1"x3" pieces of wood to the desired curvature and nail the plywood to it. You actually do the mold, inside out. Like laying the fiberglass on the inside of a bathtub.

WAvery,

With these plywood kyak kits and canoe kits, they don't use a 'mold' - which is why I thought he mght be able to use fiberglass....

follow your steps to the above point, but  instead of using the above as a 'mold' just apply the fiberglass cloth - wet it out, basically laminating the fiberglass right to a thin plywood base - with a support frame that curves, he'd have a really cool roof. Then he can apply extra layers or gel coat as he feels necessary.... It would be really light, and waterproof - all one piece!

Laura

[wavery]

wavery A fiberglass roof could work. The trick is, the roof must have a certain amount of curve to it to give it strength (like a bridge). The hard part would be making a form to lay the fiberglass on. It would be just like laying a fiberglass boat hull (of which, I have done my share).

You could make a form out of very thin plywood, like door-skin. Cut a bunch of 1"x3" pieces of wood to the desired curvature and nail the plywood to it. You actually do the mold, inside out. Like laying the fiberglass on the inside of a bathtub.

WAvery,

With these plywood kyak kits and canoe kits, they don't use a 'mold' - which is why I thought he mght be able to use fiberglass....

follow your steps to the above point, but  instead of using the above as a 'mold' just apply the fiberglass cloth - wet it out, basically laminating the fiberglass right to a thin plywood base - with a support frame that curves, he'd have a really cool roof. Then he can apply extra layers or gel coat as he feels necessary.... It would be really light, and waterproof - all one piece!

Laura

It doesn't work that way Laura..................... The only way that a gel-coat will work, is the way that I described. You can't apply a gel-coat on last.

What you are talking about is cold-molding. It is not pretty and it ends up a lot heavier. In the end, it is actually more work.

[Scott Nelson]

I also have a 1997 vintage ABS roof that suddenly decided to develop cracks this year.  Last year (when I bought it) it was flawless.  I have been kicking around covering the entire roof with a white rubber roofing product I have seen used to cover the roofs on travel trailers.  It is guaranteed for twenty or so years and looks pretty good.  Wondered if anyone has any experience with this?  Incidently, my roof does not appear to be saturated with water, yet.