Stabilizers Vs Jacks?

[ScouterMom]

I was reading on another thread about the bed ends rocking on a PUP, and someone mentioned that they 'used to' use additional auto jacks under the frame of their camper to make their camper steadier, until they found out that this was bad for the frame?  something about putting too much stress on the frame?  

I'm confused.

My first PUP was a 1976 Starmaster Starlette - a tiny, 5' wide by 6' long PUP which also had double beds that foldedmade of hollow-core, bi-fold doors) that folded out over the wheels, rather than the tongue and rear bumper.  the beds on this camper were very stable - I guess because the camper was so small and because with it openng over the wheels, it wasn't 'balancing' on the axel.  Even though the camper was tiny, it had stabilizer legs a few nches in from each corner of the frame.

This spring I got a 1973 Starcraft Starmaster 6 - about a 10'  long box with double beds on each end (typical bed slides over the rear bumper and front tongue)  the box is taller, too - it's about twice as big and half again as tall as the starlette was.  

But it surprised me that it has NO front stabilizers.  Not missing, never had them.  Others I have seen of the same year and similar style, also do not have front stabilizers.  Only the tongue jack and rear stabilizer legs .  The tongue jack was badly bent when I purchased the trailer, and we repaired it. ( I think it was dragged while hitched and down, actually pulling one bolt right thru the frame)   Because the jack was so badly bent, I didn't want to put all the weight of the front of the camper on the jack while camping. So we've been using two jack stands under the frame where front stabilizers would normally be.  It does make the trailer much more 'solid' when walking in it and sleeping in it.


here are the rear stabilizers



this shows the jack stands in front


But after reading the post mentioned before, I am wondering if using the jacks could damage the frame?  I do level the camper before placing them and the weight is NOT off the wheels - it is leveled with the wheels and jack, then the rear stabilizers go down, then we add the jacks.  I suppose with a very worn, 35 yr old camper I can't do a whole lot more damage, but still .....

Why would they not put front stabilizers on a Pop-Up camper of this size?

could using jack stands damage / twist the frame somehow?

Is there a better way to make the PUP more solid when up or a better place to locate the jack stands along the frame?? would it be better if I used additional jack stands somewhere to spread the weight / stress?

Thanks

Laura

[austinado16]

Laura, based on what I read in all of your posts, you are a very smart, capable and talented person.  I have no doubt that your use of the automotive jacks is going to be just fine.  It's obvious you are applying an "average" and "even" load to a very strong area of the frame and that's not going to hurt a thing.

My only guess as to why just rear stabilizers, is because it saved $ and weight, and they thought the tongue jack would be doing about the same thing as front stabs.  

Obviously, they changed their tune, because the later campers (like my '83 Starflyer that I turned into a utility trailer) have stabs both front and rear, along with a tongue jack.  They probably got a ton of customer feedback that the campers were too bouncy.

One nice thing you could do for the frame would be to put a block of wood between the frame and the jack.  That'll spread the point loading of the jack out nicer, plus help the jack sort of "grip" the frame better to keep the camper from scooting on the jacks.

Might be worth spending some time to get that tongue jack back to 100% operational capacity!

Hey, maybe you can ask that guy that's making the utility trailer to give you the stabilizers off of it?  You're welding buddy could buzz them back on in just a few minutes!

[flyfisherman]

I n our group of old stogy camper/flyfisherman, we have something like (2) TT's around maybe 20', (1) smaller 5th wheeler, (4) popups, (1) pickup truck slide-in camper and maybe two or three tenters. When we all gather for a get-together we kinda resemble a rag-tag band og Gypsies! One of the popupers has an 8' box Jayco (Quest series?) which only has the two stabilizers in the rear; and to make the camper more steady he went to using two screw type jack stands that he places right in front and right under the main frame rails where they make an angled turn and become the "A" frame, or the trailer tounge. I've been quite impressed with the results as the little camper has zero wiggles when moving about inside. My little Starcraft has the BAL crank-down stabilizers on all four corners but I note that they have to be snugged-up after a couple of days or after a hard rain. Had I not already have the front stabilizers then my choice would be to follow my friends choice of using the jack stands.

As wonderful as these popup camping fourms are for great information, they can also promote some bogus mis-information. One of those gem mis-information whimsicals is that popup campers have such fraigile frames. No doubt the frames have their limitations, but certainly not like they are sometimes
graphically pictured to be! Let me give you an example: some years back, right here on PopupTimes, somebody tried to jack-up the corner of his popup, not using the main frame rails that run parallel the length of the camper, but instead using his TV bumper jack proceeds to jack the camper. Of course those thinner, two sided angle iron frame pieces extending out from the main frame rails where the walls of the popup are attached, are not nearly as strong; and he bent those on the corner in the process. Also, the popup afterwards had sort of a rump-sprung look to it from the rear with one side a tad higher than the other (according to his discription) - and who knows what other damage it might have caused. Anyway, you never heard such blasphemy about popup camper frames, inspite of the posts that followed pointing out that owner's manual says very emphatically to jack-up the camper using the main frame rails ONLY.  But he did'nt want to be confused with the facts and was to later move on to become a hardsider (we hoped!) ~




Fly

[austinado16]

As wonderful as these popup camping fourms are for great information, they can also promote some bogus mis-information. Fly

Agreed.

Laura, I think you'll have better luck with those jacks that you see that have the threaded adjustable section coming out of the top.  Those are infinately adjustable and would allow you to really fine tune  your support up front.  The jacks you have now, with just the toothed/ratchet sort of mechanism only move in about 1/2" increments.

I like your camper!  Love the old school stuff!

[ScouterMom]

I kinda thought they'd be OK - but it's never a bad idea to check.  I learn all kinds of new stuff everyday reading these boards!  

I'll have to look for those screw type jacks - I can see that they would have a finer adjustment than the ones I have.  I do like the jacks - as they have a broader base than the stabilizer feet - seems to make the camper a bit steadier.

And I did fix the trailer jack - straightened it and re-bolted it, so it works fine now. But until it was fixed, and even after, I didn't want to bend it again, esp when it's parked on the down hill slope of my driveway!

this is what it looked like when I got the camper - with the jack removed:


the plate was bent & the front bolt holes pulled thru - but after straightening:




It looks & works great now!

[austinado16]

I like it!  Hammer to fit, paint to match!

I think Walmart has those aluminum screw jacks in a box of 4.  I think they'd grip the frame nicely if you put some sheet rubber between them and the frame......got an old truck mudflap you could cut up with a jigsaw or boxcutter?

[txsarge]

And I did fix the trailer jack - straightened it and re-bolted it, so it works fine now. But until it was fixed, and even after, I didn't want to bend it again, esp when it's parked on the down hill slope of my driveway!



It looks & works great now!

Your repair looks great and I like your camper.  I agree with some of the others and say that if you apply any additional supports in the correct areas and not overdo it then it should be fine.  The frame is designed to support a lot of weight from the top because of bunk supports and such.  With carefully placed jackstands, all you are doing is alleviating some of that strain while steadying the camper.

[skamper75]

We have 4 of the alum screw type stands and they work great if the frame isnt to close to the ground. Our camper came with no stablizers, only a tongue jack. There always seemed to be at least 1 corner that the stand wouldnt slide under the frame. I got 2 scissor automotive jacks.  There has been times that Ive applied to much pressure on one jack or stand, trying to get camper level, and the door wouldnt operate freely. Those times I would adjust the jacks or stands to let the door work and live with a slightly unlevel floor.