Pulling question

[Freetime]

Hello everyone!
I am very excited to find this website! I'm sure my work isn't, but o-well.
Anyway, I am a long time tent camper, and took a 4 year break to move to a new state, start a new occupation and to raise my now 4 year old daughter. This year I figured it was time to get back to the great out doors.
I did my research, and went shopping for a POP-Up. The first one I looked at was a 95 Coleman Sequoia. It was in awsome condition, everything worked, it looked and smelled new, and had everthing I was looking for, so I bought it on the spot. It was a simple decision and we love it.
I've used it a ton already. I live at Lake of the Ozarks in Central Missouri, and we have explored a few other lakes, some springs, and we took it to the State Fair. But, so far our favorite place is our local campground here at our Lake. Its close, its beautiful, it has a beach, and its clean. Sometimes, I have to run back home and get my 3 seater Polaris waverunner so we can explore that side of the Lake, which brings me to my question.
I pull with a 95 Toyota 4 Runner, and it is a nice setup. I am wanting to mount a hitch to the pup to pull the waverunner behind it. Next year I want to upgrade to two waverunners and a double trailer. Will this be too hard on the pop-up being pulled from both ends? Does this sound like a good idea? I think it would be a blast, but I want to be safe. Any advise with ideas, laws etc would be great. I look forward to sharing with all of you.
Thanks, Matt

[brainpause]

Welcome to PUT!

Don't pull anything with the popup's back end. Most popups don't have a frame to withstand the pressures, even for something light like the Wave Runner. One good sudden stop, and you'll bend stuff, jacknife it all, and have a heck of a lawsuit.

I think it is also illegal in all 50 states. To do a tandem tow, the front trailer must be a gooseneck/fifth wheel setup. Of course, check your local laws.

Larry

[wavery]

Hello everyone!
I am very excited to find this website! I'm sure my work isn't, but o-well.
Anyway, I am a long time tent camper, and took a 4 year break to move to a new state, start a new occupation and to raise my now 4 year old daughter. This year I figured it was time to get back to the great out doors.
I did my research, and went shopping for a POP-Up. The first one I looked at was a 95 Coleman Sequoia. It was in awsome condition, everything worked, it looked and smelled new, and had everthing I was looking for, so I bought it on the spot. It was a simple decision and we love it.
I've used it a ton already. I live at Lake of the Ozarks in Central Missouri, and we have explored a few other lakes, some springs, and we took it to the State Fair. But, so far our favorite place is our local campground here at our Lake. Its close, its beautiful, it has a beach, and its clean. Sometimes, I have to run back home and get my 3 seater Polaris waverunner so we can explore that side of the Lake, which brings me to my question.
I pull with a 95 Toyota 4 Runner, and it is a nice setup. I am wanting to mount a hitch to the pup to pull the waverunner behind it. Next year I want to upgrade to two waverunners and a double trailer. Will this be too hard on the pop-up being pulled from both ends? Does this sound like a good idea? I think it would be a blast, but I want to be safe. Any advise with ideas, laws etc would be great. I look forward to sharing with all of you.
Thanks, Matt

You will have to check your local laws to see if it is legal to tow 2 trailers.

Having said that, you may find it very challenging to: #1 mount a hitch on a PU frame (it is not intended to do so). #2 balance out the load so that you maintain a 10-15% tongue weight on the PU tongue.

I am, by no means, an expert on towing 2 trailers. However, I do know that the rear bumper of the PU will not handle a hitch of any kind. It would require fabricating some sort of HD reinforcement to the PU frame. Even then, I would not feel comfortable (myself) putting any additional stress on any part of the PU.

Please remember, the whole concept of a PU camper is "Light Weight" and low profile. With that in mind, everything on the PU camper/trailer is made to minimal standards to handle the job that they are designed to do. The type of stress that you are talking about may well be far beyond the design parameters of that trailer.

The other thing is the GCWR that will be required to handle the sort of weight that you are talking about. I can almost guaranty you that your present TV will not handle it.

[Freetime]

Thanks for your advise.
I think my biggest fear is the short wheel base of the trailers. I would obviously make sure the hitch is welded to the frame of the trailer and rigid enough to handle it. I know my TV would handle it fine, because I tow a 24' powerboat behind it already and it does very well, even though a 1/2 ton quadcab is in the plan book for spring. I see tandem and triple dual bunk PWC trailers running around here all the time, so I think legally its OK. I'm mainly worried about sway, and balancing weight more than anything.

I wish they would come out with a toyhauler with PWC bunks on the back instead of a toy hauler on the front. That would fit my needs well.
There is nothing better than camping on a beautiful lake and having the capabilty to hop on your waverunner and go exploring. The best part is returning to your sweet little camp spot on the edge of a calm lake w/ the glow from your pop-up and warm fire. O-yeah. Get me out of here!!
Thats my thing, anyway....

Thanks

[AustinBoston]

Welcome to PUT.  We were popped-up in northern MO (Maysville) this past weekend to celebrate my wife's brother's 10th wedding anniversary.  Had a great time.

There are more rules when towing two trailers.  I am only familiar with the rules in Minnesota; the rules in Missouri are almost certanly different.

The combination may not exceed the tow vehicle's tow rating.

Most states allow two trailers.  I don't know if Missouri is one of them.  Minnesota allows it.

Most states require that the second trailer be a boat or watercraft.  Of course, a WaveRunner is a watercraft, so on this one you are ok.  Minnesota requires the second trailer to be carrying "watercraft, motorcycle, motorized bicycle, off-highway motorcycle, snowmobile, all-terrain vehicle, motorized golf cart, or equestrian equipment or supplies"

Most states require that the first trailer be a 5th-wheel trailer.  While Minnesota does not require this, it is nearly impossible to comply with some of the other requirements without the first trailer being a 5th-wheel.

Some states have specific brake requirements for two trailers.

Some states require a special license endorsement for towing two trailers.

Some states have restrictions on when and where you can tow two trailers.  Minnesota does not allow two recreational trailers from 6am-9am and 4pm-7pm Monday-Friday in what is known as the "seven county metro area."  In addition, Minnesota limits that a pickup truck, when drawing two trailers, shall not be operated...beyond a 35-mile radius of the home post office of the owner of the pickup truck nor at a speed exceeding 35 miles per hour.

While you may not get answers to all these issues here, at least you know what to look for.

Personally, I don't think most pop-ups are up to the task of hauling another trailer behind them.  Most pop-ups are made to rather tight tolerances and don't have the beef in the frames for another trailer to be towed behind them.

Austin

[wavery]

Hello everyone!
I am very excited to find this website! I'm sure my work isn't, but o-well.
Anyway, I am a long time tent camper, and took a 4 year break to move to a new state, start a new occupation and to raise my now 4 year old daughter. This year I figured it was time to get back to the great out doors.
I did my research, and went shopping for a POP-Up. The first one I looked at was a 95 Coleman Sequoia. It was in awsome condition, everything worked, it looked and smelled new, and had everthing I was looking for, so I bought it on the spot. It was a simple decision and we love it.
I've used it a ton already. I live at Lake of the Ozarks in Central Missouri, and we have explored a few other lakes, some springs, and we took it to the State Fair. But, so far our favorite place is our local campground here at our Lake. Its close, its beautiful, it has a beach, and its clean. Sometimes, I have to run back home and get my 3 seater Polaris waverunner so we can explore that side of the Lake, which brings me to my question.
I pull with a 95 Toyota 4 Runner, and it is a nice setup. I am wanting to mount a hitch to the pup to pull the waverunner behind it. Next year I want to upgrade to two waverunners and a double trailer. Will this be too hard on the pop-up being pulled from both ends? Does this sound like a good idea? I think it would be a blast, but I want to be safe. Any advise with ideas, laws etc would be great. I look forward to sharing with all of you.
Thanks, Matt

Being able to pull a trailer and being legal may be 2 different things.

I checked around a little and I cannot find any tow ratings on a '95 Toyota 4-Runner. That may be because of the age (limited info available) but it may also be that vehicle has no towing capacity (which sounds a little hard to believe). I also cannot find a GCVWR for that vehicle :confused: .

Anyway, I would strongly suspect that you may be (at best) right at the limits of your weight capacity (check your Owner's Manual if you have it) just towing the PU and all of your gear and passengers. Your tow rating is based more on your ability to (panic) stop the entire package than it is on pulling it. If your vehicle has a mechanical failure due to pulling a heavy load, the only harm may be on your wallet. If it can't stop, the harm could be in the cost of lives.

Just because you see others doing it, doesn't make it legal or smart .

[Freetime]

Thank you Wavery! Good points.
Thanks everyone for helping me with some research. I haven't been able to find what I am looking for on the web.
My PUT has great breaks and chubby little meats with deep tread for stopping power. I really don't feel it back there unless I am climbing one of the Ozark Mountains down south. The ol' Toyota will do a little talking then, but around here it does very well. As far as the PWC...it is so light. One hand tongue weight, and very little resistance.
Well, I guess I won't know until I try it. If it doesn't feel right, I won't risk it.

Thanks for all your advise.

[curryp]

But, so far our favorite place is our local campground here at our Lake. Its close, its beautiful, it has a beach, and its clean. Sometimes, I have to run back home and get my 3 seater Polaris waverunner so we can explore that side of the Lake, which brings me to my question.

If I was close to home I would make the short drive home to get the PWC any day rather than towing a trailer behind my PUP. Towing behind a PUP whether legal or not seems like quite a long tow and not too safe. I can't imagine making turns and worse yet having to back up.

[Freetime]

We are really wanting to hit TableRock Lake in southern Missouri, at a place called Cambells Point campground. It is approx two hours away.
I've been to TableRock several times for work associated events, but I am dying to camp there and explore their very clear, clean lake w/ miles and miles of shoreline and coves.
In a few weeks we are going down there to camp at SilverDollar City amusement park, in Branson. Its a great place to visit in the fall. Its only a few miles away from Cambells Point, so we can run over and check out the grounds.
Has anybody been there?

[austinado16]

Welcome!

Would it work for you to find a car trailer that you could winch (those 2,000lb electric winches are cheap and work great) the PUP up onto the front and have a hitch ball mounted way up front for it to mount on and sit level, and then the PWC's could go sideways on bunks at the rear?  Then you could dip them in the water first, swing into the campsite, rotate your bunks out of the way, and roll the PUP off?

Don't know.....just thinking out loud.

[Freetime]

Good thinking.
No offense, but I think I would end up in another section of this website if I was spotted traveling down the road in a rig like that.
Thanks for your thought. If I had the room, I probably would fabricate a custom trailer using a idea similar to yours, but thats not a option for me.
I sell pleasure boats for a living, and do many boat shows every year. Some of those shows are combined with a RV/ camper show. As a matter of fact, I am going to one this weekend at the KC Speedway. We have a fall show there every year. I will put a tick in some of the RV manufactures ears. I know I can't be alone looking for something like that.
Meanwhile.....I guess just camping will have to do.

[Freetime]

Thanks for the idea. I don't know if that would be any safer than my original idea. If I had the room, I would design and fabricate something based on that thought, but that is not a option for me.
I sell pleasure boats for a living, and will be working a boat/rv show this weekend at the KC Speedway. I will bounce off a few RV manufactures to see if they have anything in the works, or see if they will design something like that. There has to be a market for it. Camping and watersports go hand in hand in my opinion.