winterizing our bayside?

[fourgonefishn]

Little help here, how much rv anti freeze should be put into holding tank to go through the hole system? Figure I'll put it into tank and open everything up. Is this the way it should be done? I always did our old laramie, but know we have the hot water heater and shower.
 thanks fourgonefishn

[AustinBoston]

I start by draining everything I possibly can out of the system.  The only reason for the antifreeze is that you can't get all of the water out by simply draining, but the more you get out the better.

Then I install a bypass on the hot water heater.  The HWH contains six gallons, and you would have to fill it to get antifreeze into the hot water lines otherwise.

I use two gallons of RV antifreeze.  I have a pump that will pump antifreeze from a bottle directly to the water hookup (a.k.a. city water connection), and I pump through that until I get pink from every faucet.   This is easier with a helper to turn faucets on and off, and tell you when it's coming out pink.  Don't forget the outside shower, if you have one.

I then pour the remaining Antifreeze and the second gallon into the water tank, give it a few minutes to mix with the water in the tank, and then turn the pump on for one minute.

This fills every line in the camper with antifreeze.

Slightly OT, but this is also when I check the condition of the sacrificial anode in the hot water heater.  I may also check it in the spring, but I do check it in the fall.

Austin

[fritz_monroe]

Good write up, Austin.

Another thing to think about is your cassette potty, if you have one.  I got lucky last winter, I went to use the cassette on our March trip and no water would pump through the potty.  I drained the cassette, but ensure it was completely empty.  I think that could have been a  costly mistake.  Should antifreeze be used in the cassette?

[tlhdoc]

Good write up, Austin.
 
Another thing to think about is your cassette potty, if you have one. I got lucky last winter, I went to use the cassette on our March trip and no water would pump through the potty. I drained the cassette, but ensure it was completely empty. I think that could have been a costly mistake. Should antifreeze be used in the cassette?

If your cassette is empty you don't need to add antifreeze to it.  The fresh water system should have antifreeze pumped through it.

[tlhdoc]

Little help here, how much rv anti freeze should be put into holding tank to go through the hole system? Figure I'll put it into tank and open everything up. Is this the way it should be done? I always did our old laramie, but know we have the hot water heater and shower.
thanks fourgonefishn

You need to bypass your water heater with a bypass hose or a permanent bypass.  The bypass takes the water heater out of the hot water line loop.  Antifreeze is not good for the water heater and you would have to use 6 gallons to fill it.  Drain as much water from your holding tank as you can.  You may have to add 3 gallons to get the antifreeze level deep enough to pump it through your water lines.  I purchased an antifreeze hand pump.  One end connects to the city water connection and the other end goes into a jug of antifreeze.  Open one faucet at a time and pump the antifreeze until it comes out of the faucet.  Do this for all of your water lines, hot and cold.  I use less than one gallon of antifreeze to do my entire trailer using the hand pump.  If you don't use a pump attached to the city water connection, you should remove the screen on the connection and push on the stem of the check valve.  There should be a small amount of water that drains out.  Do this when the water system has no pressure on it.

[fourgonefishn]

You need to bypass your water heater with a bypass hose or a permanent bypass.  The bypass takes the water heater out of the hot water line loop.  Antifreeze is not good for the water heater and you would have to use 6 gallons to fill it.  Drain as much water from your holding tank as you can.  You may have to add 3 gallons to get the antifreeze level deep enough to pump it through your water lines.  I purchased an antifreeze hand pump.  One end connects to the city water connection and the other end goes into a jug of antifreeze.  Open one faucet at a time and pump the antifreeze until it comes out of the faucet.  Do this for all of your water lines, hot and cold.  I use less than one gallon of antifreeze to do my entire trailer using the hand pump.  If you don't use a pump attached to the city water connection, you should remove the screen on the connection and push on the stem of the check valve.  There should be a small amount of water that drains out.  Do this when the water system has no pressure on it.

  I have drain lines for the hot water heater, is that enough?  for the heater? Sounds like I will have to figure out a way for a bypass.  Why doesn't  a bypass come already installed from factory?! I believe I have a blow out plug to clean the system. Thanks for the replies so far.
 fourgonefishn

[AustinBoston]

I have drain lines for the hot water heater, is that enough?  for the heater? Sounds like I will have to figure out a way for a bypass.  Why doesn't  a bypass come already installed from factory?! I believe I have a blow out plug to clean the system. Thanks for the replies so far.
 fourgonefishn

A few do come with a bypass.  But the pop-up industry is fiercely competitive with every dollar of cost important.

The one I have is really cheap and has to be installed every fall and removed in the spring, but there are nicer ones that install permanently and then work with valves to bypass or use the heater.

Austin

[tlhdoc]

I have drain lines for the hot water heater, is that enough? for the heater? Sounds like I will have to figure out a way for a bypass. Why doesn't a bypass come already installed from factory?! I believe I have a blow out plug to clean the system. Thanks for the replies so far.
fourgonefishn

I pull my anode rod out when the water heater is empty.  You should have received a bypass hose when you purchased your camper.  It is a short hose (maybe 6 inches) that has thumb fittings to attach it to your water lines after you remove the water lines from the water heater.  You can purchase a permanent by pass so you only have to turn a valve or two.  

[CajunCamper]

Take this for what it is. A question from a southerner that really never has to deal with the temps you guys deal with.

If the system is empty, what's the point of adding antifreeze. Doesn't the damage come with a full system and the expansion of freezing water? Even if the system had a little water in it but had room to expand seems that would still not cause problems.

Perhaps someone can explain.

[AustinBoston]

Take this for what it is. A question from a southerner that really never has to deal with the temps you guys deal with.

If the system is empty, what's the point of adding antifreeze. Doesn't the damage come with a full system and the expansion of freezing water? Even if the system had a little water in it but had room to expand seems that would still not cause problems.

Perhaps someone can explain.

1) The only way to remove all of the water is to blow it out with compressed air.  This is an approach that some people use, but requires access to a compressor and takes all day long.  A lot of people don't trust it because you can't be certain you got all the water out.

2) Freezing water expands in all directions.  The primary risk is when a section of pipe freezes on the ends first (the most likely scenario) blocking the the water between the ends from expanding.  Now when the rest of the pipe expands, pressure can skyrocket - and would reach tens of thousands of pounds per square inch if something didn't give first.  Of course, something gives long before it gets there.

Austin

[fritz_monroe]

I have drain lines for the hot water heater, is that enough?  for the heater? Sounds like I will have to figure out a way for a bypass.  Why doesn't  a bypass come already installed from factory?! I believe I have a blow out plug to clean the system. Thanks for the replies so far.
 fourgonefishn

My 2006 Bayside came with the bypass standard.  Look in your front trunk at the back of the water heater.  It may have a bypass.  Here's a shot of the bypass

[acharya108]

I start by draining everything I possibly can out of the system.  The only reason for the antifreeze is that you can't get all of the water out by simply draining, but the more you get out the better.

Then I install a bypass on the hot water heater.  The HWH contains six gallons, and you would have to fill it to get antifreeze into the hot water lines otherwise.

I use two gallons of RV antifreeze.  I have a pump that will pump antifreeze from a bottle directly to the water hookup (a.k.a. city water connection), and I pump through that until I get pink from every faucet.   This is easier with a helper to turn faucets on and off, and tell you when it's coming out pink.  Don't forget the outside shower, if you have one.

I then pour the remaining Antifreeze and the second gallon into the water tank, give it a few minutes to mix with the water in the tank, and then turn the pump on for one minute.

This fills every line in the camper with antifreeze.

Slightly OT, but this is also when I check the condition of the sacrificial anode in the hot water heater.  I may also check it in the spring, but I do check it in the fall.

Austin

Austin, are you saying that you put ant-freeze into your potable water tank? If so, anti-freeze is toxic and can cause renal failure. Could't you just blow all of the lines out, then put steel wool or other obstacle to deter rodents from entering tank?
marc

[AustinBoston]

Austin, are you saying that you put ant-freeze into your potable water tank?

I said RV antifreeze.  It contains no ethelyne glycol, but uses a combination of relatively non-toxic materials, mostly propylene glycol.

This stuff is specifically designed for use in RV potable water systems.

It is important for people to note that automotive antifreeze in your water system is a very, very bad idea.

Peak article about RV antifreeze: "RV antifreeze is intended to protect drinking water systems in mobile homes from freezing in the winter."

Article on winterizing: "Using RV antifreeze is probably the surest method to absolutely guarantee that no pipes will freeze. Properly used, it will protect your rig well down into sub-zero temperatures. It does require a lot of flushing in the spring to get the taste out..." Note that we're talking taste, not toxins.

Campingworld listing for RV Antifreeze: "Protect your RV

[tlhdoc]

Austin, are you saying that you put ant-freeze into your potable water tank? If so, anti-freeze is toxic and can cause renal failure. Could't you just blow all of the lines out, then put steel wool or other obstacle to deter rodents from entering tank?
marc

RV antifreeze is made for potable water systems, it is not toxic.  If you drink the RV antifreeze it will give you diarrhea.  I don't know how rodents would get into your water tank, if you close the valve on the tank.  Steel wool rust, and I wouldn't recommend using it anywhere on your trailer.  If you need to plug a hole brass wool is a better alternative.

[acharya108]

RV antifreeze is made for potable water systems, it is not toxic.  If you drink the RV antifreeze it will give you diarrhea.  I don't know how rodents would get into your water tank, if you close the valve on the tank.  Steel wool rust, and I wouldn't recommend using it anywhere on your trailer.  If you need to plug a hole brass wool is a better alternative.

Thanks for the clarification and information. As a novice to PUP camping, my lack of knowledge led me to some erroneous conclusions. Yes, you are right, brass wool would be a better choice to keep anything out of unwanted openings.
marc