Newbie Q on TV's

[lattet]

Hi - I'm a single parent who loves to go camping and my goal is to graduate from tent to pop-up!  My current vehicle will be hitting a 10-yr mark soon and I have already decided that my next vehicle will have to be something that can tow a pop-up.  Here's my issue: I want a vehicle that can still be used for my primary, every day driving (w/decent gas mileage), yet is powerful enough to tow pop-up with gear.

I am just starting to plan for this and haven't checked everything out yet, but I was thinking one of the mini-suv's ie: Toyota RAV4 or something similar, with towing package.  

As for pop-up, I know I pretty much want to stay with basics (ie: no shower or slide-out), and do like those with the added storage area in the front.

Being new to all this and dare I say it? (being a female...) I do not want to make a costly mistake for everyday or for towing and am trying to find that perfect balance.  

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated - Thanks so much!

[austinado16]

Hi and welcome!
My suggestion would be that you start looking at both Pop-ups (PUPs) and TV's until you find what combination of what, makes you happiest.

For example, if a RAV4 is what you decide to go with, then see what they are rated for towing and then look at what that gets you in a PUP.

Stick with tried-and-true vehicles, rather than the lastest wiz-bang cross-over-whatever that's just come on the market.

RAV4's have always had a good reputation, as have the Subaru Forresters, and the Honda Elements.  Go drive 'em, see what you like and then let that steer you in the direction of PUPs. Toyota Tacoma trucks also have a good reputation and still get in the 30's for mpg, even with extended cabs.

For example, at 1,300lbs empty and maxed out at maybe 1,900lbs my Starcraft has an 11' box, 6'-6" wide, and a King bed in front and Full in the back with fridge, furnace, stove, sink, drinking water storage, and dinette off to the side (so you don't have to climb over it to get to the King size bunk).  Big inside, plenty of storage, and yet not very heavy.  This same size was also available with a potti/shower combo and water heater.  Point being, you don't have to have a very large or very heavy PUP to have all the amenities.

Have fun with your search!

[sacrawf]

The RAV4 may do the job, but only if purchased with the V-6 and with the factory tow prep package that gets towing capacity up to 3500 pounds.  There are a lot of vehicles on the market that will acomplish your goals. You might consider something in the size range of the Saturn Vue, Honda Pilot, Ford Escape, Hyundai Santa Fe, Chevrolet Equinox, and Kia Sorrento.  Other considerations might include the Toyota Highlander, Hyundai Veracruz, Buick Enclave (and similar GMC Acadia and Saturn Outlook) and Lexus RX .  These vehicles with a V-6 will likely be in the 20 to 24 mpg range for daily driving, but have a towing capacity of 3000-3600 pound range when properly equiped with the factory trailer prep package on the vehicle and with electric brakes on the trailer.

The next step up in size (Ford Explorer, Dodge Nitro and Durango, Nissan Pathfinder, Toyota Sequoia, etc.) would give you more cargo room, towing capacity, and comfort, but drop the mpg down into the 16 to 20 mpg range, depending on engine and 2 or 4 wheel drive.  However, these models may cost the nearly the same or even less as the smaller SUV's that have been loaded up with navigation systems, rear-seat entertainment systems, third-row seats, etc., especially as there may be incentives, rebates, and special financing deals on the larger vehicles.

Have fun looking at all of these online and test driving.  Keep us informed.

Hi - I'm a single parent who loves to go camping and my goal is to graduate from tent to pop-up!  My current vehicle will be hitting a 10-yr mark soon and I have already decided that my next vehicle will have to be something that can tow a pop-up.  Here's my issue: I want a vehicle that can still be used for my primary, every day driving (w/decent gas mileage), yet is powerful enough to tow pop-up with gear.

I am just starting to plan for this and haven't checked everything out yet, but I was thinking one of the mini-suv's ie: Toyota RAV4 or something similar, with towing package.  

As for pop-up, I know I pretty much want to stay with basics (ie: no shower or slide-out), and do like those with the added storage area in the front.

Being new to all this and dare I say it? (being a female...) I do not want to make a costly mistake for everyday or for towing and am trying to find that perfect balance.  

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated - Thanks so much!

[D-mo]

It seems that you know which direction you want to go with your tow vehicle, which you must remember, you will be driving at the most 5% of the time with a trailer.
This is good.  
If I were you, I would be looking at a popup with nothing bigger than a 8 foot box.  Easy to tow, much lighter, not as wide, and great for a starter.  A little cramped on room, but hey .. your camping right ? and spend most of the time on the outside, rather than the inside.
We had one for 12 yrs and loved it ...

d-mo

[AustinBoston]

It seems that you know which direction you want to go with your tow vehicle, which you must remember, you will be driving at the most 5% of the time with a trailer.

This is not neccesarily valid information.  Our van has 202,000 miles on it.  Our trailer has 30,000 miles on it.  They were both purchased new at the same time.  That comes to nearly 15% towing miles, more than three times your estimate.  On one occasion, we towed a different 4,000 lb. trailer 2,500 miles, bringing the total to over 16%.

I know someone (a single guy who has camped at least once a month since November of 2005, and close to once a month for years before that) who's towing miles come close to 25% of his total miles.  UPDATE: He reports his S-10 has 80,000 miles on it, and his camper has 50,000 miles on it.  The camper had 10,000 miles before he got the S-10, so about 50% of his truck's miles are towing his ALiner.

There are people here that are out every weekend for 8-9 months a year.  Others take at least one long trip a year, putting several thousand miles down in one trip.  Some do both.

While the average may be lower than 5%, there is no way to tell how much a specific person will tow without getting to know where and how often they plan on camping.

lattet:  Whatever you end up getting, the following should be kept in mind:

1) Get trailer brakes.  Having adequate towing capacity saves the tow vehicle, but having adequate stopping capacity saves YOU, especially with a smaller tow vehicle.
2) A smaller tow vehicle MUST have an auxillary transmission cooler.  Larger ones should have one.  Compared to the cost of a transmission, they are dirt cheap.  Be careful on this; some factory tow packages do not include a tranny cooler.
3) If you will be towing long distances or in mountains, then your tow rating needs to be at least 25% larger than the fully loaded weight of your trailer and the people and cargo in your tow vehicle.

Austin

[mountainrev]

Even if only 5% (or less) of the miles you put on your tow vehicle are actually miles towing your camper, keep in mind that pulling something that your vehicle is only marginally able to tow will be unsafe and likely take a toll on its transmission.  

I'm not advocating getting a PowerStroke Excursion to pull an 8' box pup, but pay very close attention to the vehicle's tow rating.  As someone already posted, if you stick with a very small (8' box, not front storage) basic camper, you may be o.k. with mini-SUV.  But if you go with a 10' and front storage, you'll likely be at or over the weight limit with most mini-SUV's.

Do your homework is the bottom line.  You may discover that the difference in gas mileage between a V-6 mini-SUV and a mid-sized SUV is very minimal.  Factor in the initial cost, which may be the same or in some cases, even less than some mini-SUV's, and you might just be better off with a bigger on.

My Durango is really a full-sized SUV, which is probably more vehicle than what you're looking for.  It's a V-8 with 4wd, but I do get 20 mpg on the highway (not towing), and I averaged 17 mpg towing my 11' box pup up to the Tetons recently.  That's probably not signficantly worse than most mini-SUV's that are set up to tow would get.  (City mpg is not great (16 mpg), however)

[fritz_monroe]

Another thing to keep in mind when looking at the small SUVs, wheelvase.  I originally towed our Bayside with a Jeep Liberty.  That lasted a single trip.  The wheelbase was just too short for my liking.  It was capable of towing it, but I just didn't feel comfortable with that long trailer back there.

Don't get me wrong, a Jeep Liberty is fine to tow with for some, but since I had never towed, it just didn't feel good to me.  I guess that's another vote for sticking to a small box pup.

[wavery]

Just to muddy the waters a little more........your tow rating means very little to a family camper. The tow rating tells you the maximum amount of weight that a practically empty TV can tow. When you start talking about a TV with passengers and camping gear, things often change considerably.

There are 5 important #s that you need to know about a potential tow vehicle. 1. GCVWR (Gross combined vehicle weight rating). 2. Curb weight. 3.Tow rating. 4. GVWR. 5. Rear GAWR (Gross axle weight rating).

First you need to determine the weight of your passengers, camping gear, dog and full tank of gas (be sure that this total does not exceed your GVWR). Then subtract that total from your GCVWR and that will tell you how much weight that you can tow. However, you cannot exceed your maximum tow rating (that's the only thing that the tow rating is good for).

Let's say that you  are looking at a 2007 Rav4. It may have a GCVWR of  6,600# (I don't know the actual #). Your curb weight is 3550#. Let's say that you have 1000# of passengers and cargo (including fuel). Your vehicle is now 4550# and still under the GVWR of 4600# GREAT!!.

Now take that 4550# and subtract it from the GCVWR of 6600# (whatever the actual # is) and you have 2100# left for towing weight. If your max tow rating is 2000# you can tow 2000#, if your tow rating is 3500#....guess what....you can only tow 2100# without exceeding your GCVWR. It doesn't matter what your tow rating is. You should never exceed your GCVWR, no matter what. That is the Key #.

All the tow rating tells you is that you MAY be able to tow that weight ONLY if you do not exceed your GCVWR. Which in MOST vehicles means that the vehicle must be nearly empty to tow its max tow rating.

The last thing to take into account is that your trailer tongue weight must not take your GAWR (Gross axle weight rating) over it's limit.

That's a lot of G's, W,s V's & stuff but if you're going to shell out $ for a new vehicle, you should get to know this stuff so that you don't end up disappointed with your purchase.

[Kelly]

Even if only 5% (or less) of the miles you put on your tow vehicle are actually miles towing your camper, keep in mind that pulling something that your vehicle is only marginally able to tow will be unsafe and likely take a toll on its transmission.  

I'm not advocating getting a PowerStroke Excursion to pull an 8' box pup, but pay very close attention to the vehicle's tow rating.  As someone already posted, if you stick with a very small (8' box, not front storage) basic camper, you may be o.k. with mini-SUV.  But if you go with a 10' and front storage, you'll likely be at or over the weight limit with most mini-SUV's.

Do your homework is the bottom line.  You may discover that the difference in gas mileage between a V-6 mini-SUV and a mid-sized SUV is very minimal.  Factor in the initial cost, which may be the same or in some cases, even less than some mini-SUV's, and you might just be better off with a bigger on.

Another single mom here ... and I would second what mountainrev has to say.  I went through the same decision making process about 4.5 years ago.  I needed something for 4 kids, so it had to be a little bigger than a small SUV.  

I especially agree with the part about not getting something marginally able to tow.  I chose to give up a little in gas mileage to feel comfortable towing.

The other thing to keep in mind ~ some brands of PU are lighter than others.  I have a 12' Jayco that weighs about 2300 lbs fully loaded ... no trunk, but it does have a storage area that is accessible from the outside.  

Do your homework and you'll be fine.  

(btw ~ you can say that being female thing, but why limit yourself?  There are a lot of us single women/moms out there camping by ourselves.)

[AustinBoston]

The other thing to keep in mind ~ some brands of PU are lighter than others.  I have a 12' Jayco that weighs about 2300 lbs fully loaded ... no trunk, but it does have a storage area that is accessible from the outside.

I second this.  Kelly's Jayco is nearly as big as my Coleman/Fleetwood (12' box but with front storage trunk and slideout), but my trailer weighs a whopping one thousand two hundred pounds more than hers.  When new, there was probably a similar difference in price.   :eyecrazy:

Austin

[lattet]

sacrawf - your info is exactly what I was hoping for....someone who has more experience and knowledge on this subject, with the various vehicles.  I probably would have never even entertained the idea of looking at larger suv's - thanks for the tips!

[lattet]

It seems that you know which direction you want to go with your tow vehicle, which you must remember, you will be driving at the most 5% of the time with a trailer.
This is good.  
If I were you, I would be looking at a popup with nothing bigger than a 8 foot box.  Easy to tow, much lighter, not as wide, and great for a starter.  A little cramped on room, but hey .. your camping right ? and spend most of the time on the outside, rather than the inside.
We had one for 12 yrs and loved it ...

d-mo

d-mo...I so agree with the suggestion of a smaller box, especially since its only my daughter and I.  and for the record, I do spend most of my time outside, which is why I love camping!

[lattet]

This is not neccesarily valid information.  Our van has 202,000 miles on it.  Our trailer has 30,000 miles on it.  They were both purchased new at the same time.  That comes to nearly 15% towing miles, more than three times your estimate.  On one occasion, we towed a different 4,000 lb. trailer 2,500 miles, bringing the total to over 16%.

I know someone (a single guy who has camped at least once a month since November of 2005, and close to once a month for years before that) who's towing miles come close to 25% of his total miles.  UPDATE: He reports his S-10 has 80,000 miles on it, and his camper has 50,000 miles on it.  The camper had 10,000 miles before he got the S-10, so about 50% of his truck's miles are towing his ALiner.

There are people here that are out every weekend for 8-9 months a year.  Others take at least one long trip a year, putting several thousand miles down in one trip.  Some do both.

While the average may be lower than 5%, there is no way to tell how much a specific person will tow without getting to know where and how often they plan on camping.

lattet:  Whatever you end up getting, the following should be kept in mind:

1) Get trailer brakes.  Having adequate towing capacity saves the tow vehicle, but having adequate stopping capacity saves YOU, especially with a smaller tow vehicle.
2) A smaller tow vehicle MUST have an auxillary transmission cooler.  Larger ones should have one.  Compared to the cost of a transmission, they are dirt cheap.  Be careful on this; some factory tow packages do not include a tranny cooler.
3) If you will be towing long distances or in mountains, then your tow rating needs to be at least 25% larger than the fully loaded weight of your trailer and the people and cargo in your tow vehicle.

Austin

austin - thank you for the tips!  much appreciated!

in my reading, it sounds like electric brakes are better than surge (I think I am saying that right?)...and the extra cooler on the radiator (I think that is what your saying?) is preferred.  initially, I would tow local and then after experience, contemplate traveling through mountains.  I am in SW Ohio and we have small hills here.  

one of my major concerns with picking the right tow vehicle is the weight - I do not want to have to worry about 'cutting it close' and causing my tow vehicle extra wear & tear.  I want to be able to hitch up and pack in all my stuff without concern.

[lattet]

Another single mom here ... and I would second what mountainrev has to say.  I went through the same decision making process about 4.5 years ago.  I needed something for 4 kids, so it had to be a little bigger than a small SUV.  

I especially agree with the part about not getting something marginally able to tow.  I chose to give up a little in gas mileage to feel comfortable towing.

The other thing to keep in mind ~ some brands of PU are lighter than others.  I have a 12' Jayco that weighs about 2300 lbs fully loaded ... no trunk, but it does have a storage area that is accessible from the outside.  

Do your homework and you'll be fine.  

(btw ~ you can say that being female thing, but why limit yourself?  There are a lot of us single women/moms out there camping by ourselves.)

Thank you Kelly - I can't tell you how nice it was to learn there are others.  :-)  My comment on being female was more directed at the technical/mechanical issues - but I am learning!  Thanks so much!

[AustinBoston]

in my reading, it sounds like electric brakes are better than surge (I think I am saying that right?)...

While I prefer electric brakes, surge brakes do 90% or more of what electric brakes do.  I would bot let brake type be a deciding factor if you've found the trailer you really want.

and the extra cooler on the radiator (I think that is what your saying?) is preferred.

Here's the technical part.  The radiator is designed mainly to cool the engine.  But the transmission (which is between the engine and the wheels) also gets hot.  To cool it, a tube with transmission fluid in it is run through a part of the radiator.  Under normal circumstances, this is all that is needed.  But when you tow, the transmission generates a lot more heat.  A transmission cooler looks like a little radiator, and is used in addiition to the tube that goes through the radiator.  It provides enough extra cooling so that the transmission does not overheat.  Some combinations don't really need them, but if you don't know for sure, a transmission cooler is a lot cheaper ($75-$150) than a transmission ($800-$2500).

initially, I would tow local and then after experience, contemplate traveling through mountains.  I am in SW Ohio and we have small hills here.

Sounds like a good plan.

Austin