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which tv would you use?

Started by cpaharley, Mar 18, 2008, 04:19 PM

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cpaharley

I just recently purchased a Hyperlite toy hauler with 3200 lb capacity. I have 2 tow vehicles, a 2006 jeep liberty crd with 160 hp and 295 lbs torque and a 2007 nissan frontier b4000 with 261 hp and 281 lbs of torque. The liberty is auto and the truck is a 6 speed. I'm traveling to canadian rockies with 8-10% grades which may be too much for the Jeep. The trailer will be 2800 lbs loaded. Any help with my decision would be appreciated.

wavery

Quote from: cpaharleyI just recently purchased a Hyperlite toy hauler with 3200 lb capacity. I have 2 tow vehicles, a 2006 jeep liberty crd with 160 hp and 295 lbs torque and a 2007 nissan frontier b4000 with 261 hp and 281 lbs of torque. The liberty is auto and the truck is a 6 speed. I'm traveling to canadian rockies with 8-10% grades which may be too much for the Jeep. The trailer will be 2800 lbs loaded. Any help with my decision would be appreciated.
The facts that you have are not enough to help you.

Open the drivers door on each vehicle and get your weight limits. The most important figure that you need to have is your GCVWR (gross combined vehicle weight rating). This will tell you how much your vehicle can tow and how much gear and passengers you can carry.

You need to know your GCVWR, GVWR, Tow Rating, RAWR (rear axle weight rating). If these ratings aren't listed on your vehicle or Owner's Manual, you will need to write down you Veh ID # and call the dealership service dept. They can put the number into their computer and give you the ratings. Also ask them if the vehicle was built with a trailer towing package.

Take the GCVWR, subtract the trailer weight (loaded) and GVW (gross vehicle weight) and that will tell you how much capacity that you have for passengers, fuel and cargo.

The Tow rating will only tell you how much you can tow WITHOUT going over the GCVWR. Often times, a vehicle's tow rating will only allow you to tow to capacity with only the driver and no cargo. That's why it is critical to know what your vehicles GCVWR is and work backward from there.

You need to know the RAWR so that you know if the vehicle can handle the tongue weight of the trailer plus all of the cargo in the back of the tow vehicle (TV).

It is also important to understand that these ratings include the vehicles braking capacity. This is the most critical thing that you will face. With those kind of grades, you could easily overwhelm your vehicles braking system and encounter deadly brake fade. It is VERY - VERY important to understand how brake fade can effect your vehicle and whether it is rated to handle it or not.

It is one thing to have to go up a hill slowly due to limited horse power but it is something entirely different to have insufficient braking power. You can't afford to make a mistake there. If you burn up your engine, you can get it fixed. If your brakes fail while going down a steep grade.....well.....think about it.  ;)

Here's what I came up with on a Jeep Liberty "LTD":
http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp;jsessionid=tFtRGUP9NJ8XzwZkZMwAp-E?tab=specs&paId=233241694&recnum=1&actLog=true&tracktype=usedcc&pageNumber=0&numResultsPerPage=50&largeNumResultsPerPage=0&sortorder=ascending&sortfield=SORT_INDICATOR+ascending%2cPRICE+descending&certifiedOnly=false&criteria=K-%7cE-ALL%7cM-_23_%7cH-%7cD-_5767_%7cN-N%7cR-50%7cI-1%2c3%7cP-SORT_INDICATOR+ascending%2cPRICE+descending%7cQ-ascending%7cY-_2006_%7cX-popular%7cZ-90048&aff=recycler

Curb weight   3,825 lbs.  
GVWR   5,350 lbs.  
Front GAWR   2,750 lbs.  
Rear GAWR   3,150 lbs.  
Payload   1,150 lbs.  
Towing capacity   5,000 lbs.  
GCWR   7,150 lbs.

IF these figures are the same as yours (probably not), you can carry 1525# in passengers and cargo, GVRW - Curb weight (which you will probably exceed).

The GCWR (Gross COMBINED weight rating) of 7150# - 5350# (GVWR) = 1800#. That is the maximum weight that this vehicle can tow if the TV is loaded to it's max of 5350#. As you can see, the 5000# tow rating means little and is very mis-leading if you don't consider all the facts.
 



BTW........WELCOME TO PUT!!

flyfisherman

You'll need the horses for the mountains. Aspirating gasoline engines, (i.e., carbureted or fuel injected), will lose performance with higher altitudes.

For example ... I have an '02 GMC with a small V-8  ~  270 hp ... but that's at sea level. Mr.Goodwrench says for every 1000' above that, the engine loses about 4% of it's performance. So at Denver's Mile High Stadium it would lose 20% of it's performance. So if I had to crest a high mountain pass, say 14,000', I will lose over half of that 270 hp.



Fly

cpaharley

let me add some more info, the tow rating for the jeep is 5,000 lbs and for the nissan it's 6300 lbs. the trailer has electric brakes and i have installed brake controllers on both vehicles. both vehicles are injected but although the diesel has the same torque, i'm worried about the horsepower and the mountain inclines. the jeep has a tow mode automatic as well as h/d cooling. the truck has no tow accessories other than the hitch and brake controller. the gcwr for both vehicles are similar. thanks for your input

wavery

Quote from: cpaharleylet me add some more info, the tow rating for the jeep is 5,000 lbs and for the nissan it's 6300 lbs. the trailer has electric brakes and i have installed brake controllers on both vehicles. both vehicles are injected but although the diesel has the same torque, i'm worried about the horsepower and the mountain inclines. the jeep has a tow mode automatic as well as h/d cooling. the truck has no tow accessories other than the hitch and brake controller. the gcwr for both vehicles are similar. thanks for your input
Please re-read my post....I added some info.

The most important is the fact that the tow rating on that vehicle is very deceiving. That vehicle is not equipped to handle that kind of load, especially if you have passengers and cargo.

Trailer brakes help a lot but in mountains like that, the trailer brakes will fade much faster than the TV brakes. This will add additional stress on the TV and brake fade can happen very quickly once the trailer brakes are gone.

flyfisherman

Quote from: cpaharleyI just recently purchased a Hyperlite toy hauler with 3200 lb capacity. I have 2 tow vehicles, a 2006 jeep liberty crd with 160 hp and 295 lbs torque and a 2007 nissan frontier b4000 with 261 hp and 281 lbs of torque. The liberty is auto and the truck is a 6 speed. I'm traveling to canadian rockies with 8-10% grades which may be too much for the Jeep. The trailer will be 2800 lbs loaded. Any help with my decision would be appreciated.



You need to re-check the torque figure for the Jeep ... with 160 hp, that seems kinda high.

cpaharley

I see your point, I would have to reduce my weight in the jeep to 800 lbs to bring the trailer to 2500lbs,  which is ok for 2 people and fuel, but there is no margin room, so it looks like the nissan would be the choice.

cpaharley

the torque numbers are from jeep website for a diesel liberty

brainpause

Without a doubt, I'd go with the Frontier. Not only have you got more horses, your wheel base is a little longer, which will help on windy drives and truck passes.

Larry

wavery

Quote from: cpaharleyI see your point, I would have to reduce my weight in the jeep to 800 lbs to bring the trailer to 2500lbs,  which is ok for 2 people and fuel, but there is no margin room, so it looks like the nissan would be the choice.
Not exactly. Using the figures above (again, I don't know if this is the same as your vehicle), you would have available weight capacity of 525#.

TV curb weight 3825#
Trailer (loaded) 2800#
Available cap.... 525#
---------------------
Total (GCVWR) 7150#

That 525# includes driver, passengers, fuel and cargo.

You might want to dig up the figures on your Nissan.....

Here is what I came up with on a 2007 Nissan Frontier, Crew-cab, 4x2 139" wheel base (your actual will most certainly differ):

Curb weight   4,336 lbs.  
GVWR   5,730 lbs.  
Front GAWR   3,296 lbs.  
Rear GAWR   3,197 lbs.  
Payload   1,394 lbs.  
Towing capacity   6,300 lbs.  
GCWR   11,133 lbs.

These figures appear to be much more acceptable. GCWR minus Curb weight gives you 6797# for trailer passengers and cargo. I would say that the major difference that you are seeing here is it's weight carrying capacity on the suspension and it's braking power. As you well know, the HP is similar to the other vehicle.

Please verify these figures with your actual before proceeding. I really don't have enough info to give you the correct figures. For instance, if yours is an XE, the figures change dramatically:

Curb weight   3,675 lbs.  
GVWR   4,676 lbs.  
Front GAWR   2,531 lbs.  
Rear GAWR   2,531 lbs.  
Payload   1,001 lbs.  
Towing capacity   3,500 lbs.  
GCWR   7,936 lbs.  

This vehicle would have 4261# for trailer, passengers and cargo. Quite a difference but still far superior to the Jeep.

cpaharley

I found my specifications for the nissan:
gcwr-11,133
gvwr-5690
which leaves about 5500 for the trailer, well under the 2700 estimated full weight. I'm researching the liberty spec's now.

thanks for your input

cpaharley

ok folks, here are the results

nissan-gcwr-11,133
          gvwr-5,690
jeep-gcwr-10,300
       gvwr-5450

So it appears my trailer weight of approx 2,700 lbs is well within the limits of both vehicles. The nissan pulled the trailer back from Indiana where I bought the trailer and my mpg went from 22 to 17. The nissan pulled it like it was not there. We went camping this weekend (it was 30 outside but 70 inside) and the diesel was a little  choppy, I think due to the shorter wheelbase. It has the o/d cutout and I only used it once going up a mountain. My mpg dropped from 22 to 16. So, I guess when I head towards Sturgis and Yellowknife, Northern Territories this summer my decision will be based on diesel prices which cost about $1.00 more currently over regular gas. This could mean difference between fuel costs of $1600 for diesel vs $1200 gas for same 6,000 mile trip. The max grade for any national highway I think is 8% and both are 4x4.

wavery

Quote from: cpaharleyok folks, here are the results

nissan-gcwr-11,133
          gvwr-5,690
jeep-gcwr-10,300
       gvwr-5450

So it appears my trailer weight of approx 2,700 lbs is well within the limits of both vehicles. The nissan pulled the trailer back from Indiana where I bought the trailer and my mpg went from 22 to 17. The nissan pulled it like it was not there. We went camping this weekend (it was 30 outside but 70 inside) and the diesel was a little  choppy, I think due to the shorter wheelbase. It has the o/d cutout and I only used it once going up a mountain. My mpg dropped from 22 to 16. So, I guess when I head towards Sturgis and Yellowknife, Northern Territories this summer my decision will be based on diesel prices which cost about $1.00 more currently over regular gas. This could mean difference between fuel costs of $1600 for diesel vs $1200 gas for same 6,000 mile trip. The max grade for any national highway I think is 8% and both are 4x4.

That looks a lot better.

That's why I always suggest that one gets the correct figures from the vehicle or the dealer.

You can go to 4 different websites and get 4 different figures on the same vehicle description. Getting the correct info is imperative. Each vehicle has different options that may effect that vehicle in very different ways.

TheViking

Quote from: waveryThat looks a lot better.
 
That's why I always suggest that one gets the correct figures from the vehicle or the dealer.
 
You can go to 4 different websites and get 4 different figures on the same vehicle description. Getting the correct info is imperative. Each vehicle has different options that may effect that vehicle in very different ways.

 
 
I agree.  You wouldn't want to tow a 2700 lb trailer with a Chrysler Concorde...that would be just silly. :yikes:   :D

wavery

Quote from: TheVikingI agree.  You wouldn't want to tow a 2700 lb trailer with a Chrysler Concorde...that would be just silly. :yikes:   :D
:morning:  just un-informed..... :sombraro:

I fixed that when I found out that my insurance company would refuse any claims if I was towing over any limits (no matter who is at fault).

Besides, I wasn't towing in mountains, just coastal.