Jacking the Pop-up

[pricerj]

My 2006 Fleetwood manual says in the event of a flat tire "summon professional help". I'm not too keen on being at the mercy of professional help in the middle of the desert and if I can change my own car tire I oughtta be able to handle a pop-up. It surprises me that this info is not in the manual.

Any special "do's & don'ts" for jacking & tire changing a pop -up? What jack points do you use? In fact what kind of jack do you carry? I know enough NOT to use the stabilizers in this case. Thanks

BTW - Planning on a 6200 mile trip this summer & I bet I get to use the advice I get here...

[wayner]

Geez I didn't think it was so complicated you should call for professional help...  I just block the other tire, use a bottle jack under the frame near the tire, then a jack stand for safety and change the tire...  

Maybe I am completely unsafe... I mean I rode my bike all through my childhood without a helmet too.. so becareful who you take advice from...

[MotherNature]

Good question - I was wondering about the same thing myself (and am WAY overdue for some sort of problem) - thanks for asking!

[He Ruide]

Rick,  I have a photogallery  with pictures addressing:

1. Safety considerations
2. Tools needed
3. Tire changing process

My recomendation is to practice changing the tire in your drive way.  That way you'll know you have all the right tools and some experience under your belt.

Hope this helps.

Ruide

[wavery]

Place the jack on the frame, just behind the axle. Put a board between the jack and the frame to help spread out the weight. Leave the trailer hitched to the TV with the emergency brake on.

I actually carry 2 small bottle jacks, in case I can't get the trailer high enough with one. I raise the jack to it's limit then I place the second jack on a 2x4 or 2 and jack it up until the tire is off the ground.

Don't forget to loosen the lug nuts before jacking. Torque the nuts to 90# and re-torque them after 10 miles.

[MotherNature]

Place the jack on the frame, just behind the axle. Put a board between the jack and the frame to help spread out the weight. Leave the trailer hitched to the TV with the emergency brake on.

I actually carry 2 small bottle jacks, in case I can't get the trailer high enough with one. I raise the jack to it's limit then I place the second jack on a 2x4 or 2 and jack it up until the tire is off the ground.

Don't forget to loosen the lug nuts before jacking. Torque the nuts to 90# and re-torque them after 10 miles.

Have to admit my 'newbieness' here - what is a bottle jack?  Would my TV jack work the same if I kept the PUP hitched to the TV and put my TV-furnished jack behind the axle?  If that couldn't get the wheel high enough, would it work if I used the 'dolly/tongue jack' (stabilized with chocks, etc.) and then used the TV jack behind the axle?  I know this probably sounds stupid but it's hard to for me to visualize such a thing!  Thanks for all the advice!

[austinado16]

A bottle jack looks like a soda bottle and the lifting "rod" comes straight up out of the top.

Regarding methods, I agree, a practice run in the driveway (if yours is level), or in the quiet of you residential street....or the vacant parking lot at the local mall or school, would be a good way to go.

You won't be doing any lifting with your tongue jack.

Yes, you could use the sissors jack that comes with your TV.....and this is where the practice run would be helpful.  You'll want to make sure that your jack can lift your camper high enough.  If it can't, you could set it on a short length of 2x6 and if that's not enough, a short piece of 2x4 on the top should get you there.

The autoparts stores sell nice little floor jacks in blow molded cases.  Very handy for this sort of thing if you've got the room.  One of those big cross style tire irons can be very handy too.  The longer the cross, the more leverage you have!

[pricerj]

Thanks to all for the info. Next weekend I'm changing a practice tire.  The Fleetwood manual "summon professional help" sure seems like a liabilty cop out if I've ever seen one.....

[6Quigs]

Just repeating what Wavery said:

"Re-Torque the lug nuts after 10 miles".

I would also check them after 50 miles and again after 100 miles, even after doing the dry run in the driveway over the weekend. Trailer wheels are not like car wheels and need to be re-torqued after the wheel has been removed.

[Old Goat]

Like most trailer owners, I have never used a torque wrench to tighten lug nuts. I use a four way cross lug wrench that I have had for over twenty years and have never had a problem with lugs comming loose on any of the trailers  that I have owned. With a good lug wrench and a little common sense anyone can get the feel of  properly tightned lug nuts and not have to worry about them comming loose. I only check the lug nuts on a newly installed wheel once,  at the end of a days run and usually not again until the wheel is removed. Again, no loose lug nuts. I have not found trailer wheels with five lugs to be any different than automotive rims other than they turn a bit faster. Smaller diameter wheels with four lugs can be a problem, especially if they are installed with lug bolts instead of studs and nuts. Lug bolts usually have a tapered shoulder that meets the rim when tightening. This taper can expand the rim holes over time making proper tightening impossible and they are much more likely to be loosened by centrifical force especially on the right side of the trailer. Some pre-world war II cars used lug bolts on wheels instead of studs and nuts..They even had left hand threaded lug bolts on the right side wheels to counteract the centrifical force. They still had problems and switched over to the more satisfactory stud and nut after the war...

[wavery]

Like most trailer owners, I have never used a torque wrench to tighten lug nuts. I use a four way cross lug wrench that I have had for over twenty years and have never had a problem with lugs comming loose on any of the trailers  that I have owned. With a good lug wrench and a little common sense anyone can get the feel of  properly tightned lug nuts and not have to worry about them comming loose. I only check the lug nuts on a newly installed wheel once,  at the end of a days run and usually not again until the wheel is removed. Again, no loose lug nuts. I have not found trailer wheels with five lugs to be any different than automotive rims other than they turn a bit faster. Smaller diameter wheels with four lugs can be a problem, especially if they are installed with lug bolts instead of studs and nuts. Lug bolts usually have a tapered shoulder that meets the rim when tightening. This taper can expand the rim holes over time making proper tightening impossible and they are much more likely to be loosened by centrifical force especially on the right side of the trailer. Some pre-world war II cars used lug bolts on wheels instead of studs and nuts..They even had left hand threaded lug bolts on the right side wheels to counteract the centrifical force. They still had problems and switched over to the more satisfactory stud and nut after the war...

I'm sure that what you say is accurate "For you" (So far).

The problem is, the most common accident involving any trailer is a wheel coming off at high speed. Second is spindles breaking and the wheel coming off, at high speed.

Just because this has never happened to you or I is not a reason to advise others to be neglectful of this very serious and simple routine. It also does not mean that it may not happen to one of us, next time out.

It's sorta like when I was towing my trailer with a vehicle that was not rated to tow a trailer that heavy. I never had a problem with it. Would I ever advise anyone else to do it....NO WAY!!!! After considering the potential liability of my actions, I solved that problem. The main thing that I recognised was how it was effecting others on this forum. Not that I was advising others to do it but the attitude of, "Well, he gets away with it, why can't I".

I was an automotive service manager for many years. I saw the results of my technicians not properly torquing wheels on a passenger car. I doubt you will go into any tire dealer, these days, and have them install wheels without using a torque wrench. Way too many shops have been sued over the years for wheels falling off after being serviced by "Professionals".

Trailers are far more susceptible to problems for a lot of reasons. They have higher air pressure, no shock absorbers which cause wheel bounce. The wheels are not built with the same standards as automobile wheels. The shock loading is just far greater.

The reason that most Owner's Manuals tell people to torque the wheels with a torque wrench and re-torque at specified intervals is because they have recognized that this is a problem and they want to distance themselves from any liability by shifting the responsibility to the trailer owner. If someone has a wheel fly off and that wheel goes through the windshield of an on-coming car at 130+ MPH, it has deadly potential. The easy way to avoid this VERY SERIOUS problem is very simple and to advise that it isn't necessary may not be wise IMO.

BTW.......are you taking your asprin a day? .... :sombraro:

[He Ruide]

Wavery,  Excellent response.

Ruide

[austinado16]

I too don't "torque" lugnuts.  Been spinning wrenches long enough to know the feel as oldgoat says.  Yeah, I probably wouldn't want others do the same because the next thing I know, someone would be installing their wheels with a 7" long 3/8" drive ratchet, one handed pressure, and then MF-ing me when their camper was scattered all over the highway.

But hey, oldgoat, not dogging you or anything, but VW/Audi/BMW and I think Volvo (and maybe others) have been using lug bolts since the very beginning and still are.  They don't do any damage to wheels, nobody is running left-hand thread on the right side of the car, and the lug bolts don't spin off due to centrifical forces.  Just an FYI.

[flyfisherman]

I'm an old 4-way lug wrencher from way back, too. And as the Old Goat says, you have a sort of "feel" when things are tight like they should be. Maybe that's due to a lot of practice from years back! The problem I have after having the tire shop attach a wheel with their air impact wrench is getting it loose afterwards! I've even had to stand on the 4-way manual wrench to get things loose!

Part of my road prep when getting ready to hit the road is to re-check the trailer wheels. Now I have the four hole lug bolts on the little Starcraft and the only time they were ever loose is one time after I had the local tire shop replace a tire and after I towed the PU home I discovered the tire shop did NOT snug them up tight. Of course, did not tow very far, maybe 9 miles, but that was sure a saftey check awakening!



Fly

[Old Goat]

Wavery,  In my previous post about how I tighten lug nuts, I only described how I have developed a feel for tight lug nuts and stated that anyone could do the same with a little practice...I did not [as you say I did] advise anyone to use my method or say that torquing was unneccessary.

Wheel loss on trailers is a safety problem and most losses are caused by wheel bearing failure due to lack of maintenance and not loose lugs as you seem to think. Axle spindles do break, as you say, but it is not a common thing for them to do so.

I will bet that at least 90%, probably more, of small trailer owners do not own a torque wrench for tightening lugs and have never had their hands on one. They all torque by hand, as I do with trouble free results..Perhaps you should start a pole thread on how many trailer owners use torque wrenches..

Question; If you own and use a torque wrench for tightening lugs, how do you know if it is accurate or not? Do you have it checked regulary for acccuracy? Torque wrenches can be affected by many things, heat and cold, dropping, vibration, and careless use. The expensive torquers that I occassionly used during my working career were all kept in their own padded cases and away from sudden tempature change and heat. They were handled very carefully during their use.. I would never trust the foriegn made cheapo  torquers that alot of campers use any further than I could throw my trailer if I could pick it up.
They do nothing other than giving the user a very false sense of security...

You asked if I take an aspirin a day...well, the answer is nope.. I have had an irregular heartbeat for over fourty years and have to take a small daily dose of Warfarin [rat poison and the generic for Coumadin] This keeps my blood slightly thinned so it does not pool and clot in my heart which would cause a stroke. Aspirin is a blood thinner in a different way and would interfere with the more efficient Warferin if I took them. I don't get head aches and have not had one since my youthful hangover days many years ago....So I really have no need for aspirin at all...