Hauling a camper

[dfaust44]

Has anyone ever hauled a Pop Up camper that weighes close to 2000 pounds with a Honda Element (2004)?

[wavery]

Has anyone ever hauled a Pop Up camper that weighes close to 2000 pounds with a Honda Element (2004)?

Check your owner's manual for the GCVWR (gross combined vehicle weight rating), Tow rating, Rear Axle weight rating, GVWR and curb weight. The important thing to know is......can this vehicle safely handle this entire package (vehicle, passengers, cargo, fuel and trailer) in an emergency stopping situation. The trailer is only a part of that total package. It just happens to be the 2nd heaviest part but there is more to consider.

From what I've been able to find, you may only have a 1500# tow rating. That tow rating may well be calculated on an empty vehicle with driver only. That's why the GCVWR is so important. That is the bottom line number that may not be exceeded (legally). When you ad passengers, fuel and cargo, you may be double the vehicles weight carrying capacity. You need to find all the #s to be sure but I would say (just from the tow rating) that you may be well overweight trying to tow a 2000# camper, passengers and camping gear (cargo).

I'm not saying that the vehicle won't pull the trailer. It may pull it just fine. It's the stopping distance (and your insurance company) that is the killer. If you are involved in an accident, you could have a serious liability issue (no matter who is at fault) because your insurance may deny your claim if your package is over weight for the TV.

BTW....WELCOME TO PUT!!!!

[spicyville1]

GCVWR (gross combined vehicle weight rating) for the Honda Elemant is 4450 lbs. You should be ok. :sombraro:

[Old Starcraft]

GCVWR (gross combined vehicle weight rating) for the Honda Elemant is 4450 lbs. You should be ok. :sombraro:

I'd double check that on the owners manual. I have a coworker worker with one and his says his has a rating of 1500lbs total weight, with no more than 900lbs on the inside of the Element. These have a unique design on the inside that allows for allot of cargo room with a flat floor. The price you pay for that flat floor are shocks that are almost in a flat position, thus not much suspension travel and a much lower tongue weight / trailer tow weight.
 
I was wondering if 4450 was for total weight, but the 2wd model is around 3600 lbs, and the 4wd is around 3900 lbs. My cowroker just confirmed with me that it is 1500 lbs on his 2wd model (he was looking at the possibilities for a general service trailer), I'm pretty sure his is a 2006.
 
Good luck :p .....and welcome to PUT :-()

[wavery]

GCVWR (gross combined vehicle weight rating) for the Honda Elemant is 4450 lbs. You should be ok. :sombraro:

Where did you get that info? :confused:

Even if it were correct (and it's not) it means nothing without knowing the curb weight of the vehicle, the weight of the cargo, the actual weight of the trailer (loaded) and a few other minor details.

From what I have found (which may not be accurate) the GVWR (not the GCVWR) is 4450# and the curb weight is 3371#.
http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp;jsessionid=1iXYqxJkC7GHAc85qbLTcY3?tab=specs&paId=251164332&recnum=24&actLog=true&tracktype=usedcc&pageNumber=0&numResultsPerPage=50&largeNumResultsPerPage=0&sortorder=ascending&sortfield=SORT_INDICATOR+ascending%2cPRICE+descending&certifiedOnly=false&criteria=K-%7cE-%7cM-_18_%7cD-_6828_%7cN-N%7cR-20%7cI-1%2c3%7cP-SORT_INDICATOR+ascending%2cPRICE+descending%7cQ-ascending%7cZ-90048&aff=recycler
That means that the vehicle has the capacity of carrying 1,079# of passengers, fuel and cargo (if that info is correct). It tells you nothing about towing capacity. That's why it is critical to get the GCVWR from the vehicle itself. That # may be different from one vehicle to another.

The tow rating tells you nothing either and is usually substantially higher than the vehicle can legally tow when loaded with passengers and cargo.

You may want to find out what the rear axle dry weight and gross weight is also.  From what "Old Starcraft" says, the  Element may not be able to handle the 200#+ tongue weight of the trailer plus the passenger and cargo influence on the rear axle.

[campdaddy]

I ran the numbers I could find and came up with basically the same thing wavery and others have came up with. After you subtract the curb weight of about 3500 from the 4500, throw in a passenger or two and some gear and you'll basically have nothing left over for towing. Even without passengers, gear, or driver, it looks as if 1000 is about all you have to play with. I don't know where they get that 1500 figure from? :confused:

[wavery]

I ran the numbers I could find and came up with basically the same thing wavery and others have came up with. After you subtract the curb weight of about 3500 from the 4500, throw in a passenger or two and some gear and you'll basically have nothing left over for towing. Even without passengers, gear, or driver, it looks as if 1000 is about all you have to play with. I don't know where they get that 1500 figure from? :confused:

Not necasarily.....we still don't know the GCVWR from dfaust44's Element (4450 is just the GVWR and does not include any trailer). He seems to be MIA. However, it's a pretty good bet that your about right.

Typically the tow rating on many smaller vehicles is the weight that the vehicle can tow with the driver and 1/2 tank of gas. However, I have seen some tow ratings that don't even allow for a driver without exceeding the GCVWR (gross combined vehicle weight rating).

[bountyhunter]

Forget the weight, hook it up and take a picture.  I want to see a box pulling a box!!    :p

Just playing with ya, dfaust44!!  I am not a fan of the boxy design of the element.

[spicyville1]

Where did you get that info? :confused:

Even if it were correct (and it's not) it means nothing without knowing the curb weight of the vehicle, the weight of the cargo, the actual weight of the trailer (loaded) and a few other minor details.

From what I have found (which may not be accurate) the GVWR (not the GCVWR) is 4450# and the curb weight is 3371#.
http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp;jsessionid=1iXYqxJkC7GHAc85qbLTcY3?tab=specs&paId=251164332&recnum=24&actLog=true&tracktype=usedcc&pageNumber=0&numResultsPerPage=50&largeNumResultsPerPage=0&sortorder=ascending&sortfield=SORT_INDICATOR+ascending%2cPRICE+descending&certifiedOnly=false&criteria=K-%7cE-%7cM-_18_%7cD-_6828_%7cN-N%7cR-20%7cI-1%2c3%7cP-SORT_INDICATOR+ascending%2cPRICE+descending%7cQ-ascending%7cZ-90048&aff=recycler
That means that the vehicle has the capacity of carrying 1,079# of passengers, fuel and cargo (if that info is correct). It tells you nothing about towing capacity. That's why it is critical to get the GCVWR from the vehicle itself. That # may be different from one vehicle to another.

The tow rating tells you nothing either and is usually substantially higher than the vehicle can legally tow when loaded with passengers and cargo.

You may want to find out what the rear axle dry weight and gross weight is also.  From what "Old Starcraft" says, the  Element may not be able to handle the 200#+ tongue weight of the trailer plus the passenger and cargo influence on the rear axle.

I got the info right off the Ford Website

[6Quigs]

I got the info right off the Ford Website

But dfaust44 is asking about a Honda Element, not a Ford :confused:

I looked but could not find the GCVWR for the element on-line, only the maximun tow rating of 1,500 lbs, which is less than your 2,000 pound trailer, so you are not O.K. to tow this trailer

Listen to what Wavery is saying, he knows his stuff

[wavery]

I got the info right off the Ford Website

I suppose that it's a mute point because dfaust44 is MIA.

However, for those that may be confused about this issue, what you got off of the web was the GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating). That is the maximum amount of weight that a vehicle can handle. Incidentally, that includes the tongue weight of any trailer or any other thing that effects the total weight of the vehicle.

The GCVWR (Gross COMBINED Vehicle Weight Rating) is the maximum weight that a vehicle can handle in combination with towing another vehicle or trailer. This is critical to know because this is the amount of weight that the TV can stop in a determined distance. That is the information that will be used to determine if the driver of this combination might be negligent in the event of an accident. If it is shown that the driver has operated the vehicle in access of that rating, the insurance company may deny any claim and the driver may face legal action.

I used to be a gross offender of this and when I finally realized the seriousness of my negligence, I corrected it.

[MomboTN]

I suppose that it's a mute point because dfaust44 is MIA.


 This is critical to know because this is the amount of weight that the TV can stop in a determined distance.
I used to be a gross offender of this and when I finally realized the seriousness of my negligence, I corrected it.

How is this effected by the different braking systems on the camper?  I have electric brakes and I have to adjust them based on the trailer load so that the pup will stop itself and not the TV also.

[wavery]

How is this effected by the different braking systems on the camper?  I have electric brakes and I have to adjust them based on the trailer load so that the pup will stop itself and not the TV also.

Electric brakes are great and when they work, they do effect your stopping distance. However, electric brakes are required in most states and are assumed in the calculation of your TV GCVWR.

It's a good thing that you are aware of adjusting your brake controller sensitivity. One of the biggest problems with any braking system is over-loading and the resulting brake fade. If the trailer is stopping the TV, the brakes will quickly over-heat and become useless in the event of an emergency stopping situation. Trailer brakes are designed to be an aid only and should not be relied upon too heavily. Increasing your following distance is your best defense.

This is one of the reasons that it is critical that a driver understands the capability of the TV. If you are towing a 2000# PU with a 1-ton PU you obviously have little to worry about. The vehicle obviously has an adequate breaking system for any condition that the driver might face. However, if you are asking yourself the question, "Is my TV adequate for what I am towing and the load that I am carrying?" it's time to get all the facts.

Even if you are towing more than the legal limit, it's better to know that than to ignore it. It will affect the way that you drive and that means a lot. When it comes to family safety.....ignorance is NOT bliss.

[flyfisherman]

To continue down the line of safety that Wavery was making ...

Almost everyone who comes on this board with questions concerning max towing capacities seem to be more concerned with the ability of the tow vehicle to be able to pull the camper successfully on down the road rather than any safety risks involved.

I pull a smaller PU (2090 GVWR) with a full sized (regular cab, short box) half ton pick-up, V-8 with auto tranny. The truck is rated to tow three times the GVWR and that was my intent to begin with. As everyone who tows a camper knows, braking is a big issue, but there's also that possible incident that can arise from time to time and that's having to make a quick maneuver at highway speeds. In the case of my PU, which is most always loaded to it's near capacity (last time I had it weighed it came out something like 2,038 lbs with the canoe and 2 bikes) and I know there has to be a few more smaller items that have stowed aboard since - my point is a ton is a ton and all is riding on a 2" ball. I make a quick steering move and you'll know that ton is behind you! With a marginal tow vehicle, a stunt like that can lead to the "tail wagging the dog"! Also, spend a lot of time in the western North Carolina mountains and that can and will sort out any tow vehicle shortcomings very fast!

There are some small popups that a vehicle with a 1,000 lb tow rating can handle and I'm surprised how accommodating they can be compared to tent camping. The bottom line for me and for what I do, these smaller popup would work and I'd much rather be towing one of those and enjoying the time in the great outdoors vs. doing one of those hair rasing, white knuckled drives to and fro where I needed to be.



Fly

[Shredder]

To continue down the line of safety that Wavery was making ...
Fly

Last weekend on my way home from 5 days of fishing, as I was coming into a small town on a two land highway, I let off the gas coasting at maybe 45-50 mph towards a traffic light. Just then a small car darted from the right lane in front of me, slammed on his brakes to turn left into a party store, no don't in need of beer. I had my first somewhat panic stop with electric brakes, 2000 lb PU, pulled by a Ford Escape rated at 3500 lb (new ceramic brakes). I stopped as good or better than with no trailer. While properly set up, I'm close to the edge with my rig. If everything was not working at peak preformance, well you can guess how this would have turned out. It does not matter how carefull you are, there are other not so carefull drivers out there. Glad I tested and adjusted my brakes before the trip....Shredder