side to side leveling

[detman64]

I was wondering if anyone has just used a jack (like a sissor jack) to just raise the side of the camper that needs leveling to get the tire high enough to put boards under it for leveling? I would place the jack under the axle not the frame of the pup. any ideas on this?  I have read several posts on leveling and everyone seams to drive on the boards, I just thought that jacking the pup might be an easier approach is all.

[AZsix]

I, like others drive up onto the boards. I can't see how getting out the jack, jacking it up, placing boards and then lowering the jack would be quicker or easier. The only advantage I see is that it would take the guess work out of it. There are times when I have had to drive off the boards and place another to achieve the right height but it's never been that much of a hassle.

[wavery]

I was wondering if anyone has just used a jack (like a sissor jack) to just raise the side of the camper that needs leveling to get the tire high enough to put boards under it for leveling? I would place the jack under the axle not the frame of the pup. any ideas on this?  I have read several posts on leveling and everyone seams to drive on the boards, I just thought that jacking the pup might be an easier approach is all.

WELCOME TO PUT!!!!

That's a good way to damage your camper. Never put a jack under the axle or the frame for leveling. They just weren't built for that.

Remember the entire concept of the PU camper is, "Light Weight and low profile".

The "light weight" is accomplished by using the minimal amount of material in manufacturing. Therefore the frame and/or axle is not meant for jacking up the trailer. Doing anything other than what is described in the owners manual may be asking for trouble.

You will find that it is best, over the long term, to treat your PU in the manner that it was designed  :sombraro: .

[brainpause]

I, like others drive up onto the boards. I can't see how getting out the jack, jacking it up, placing boards and then lowering the jack would be quicker or easier. The only advantage I see is that it would take the guess work out of it. There are times when I have had to drive off the boards and place another to achieve the right height but it's never been that much of a hassle.

Agree. You learn to get a pretty good guess of how many boards/Lynx levelers are needed. Getting out a jack is a hassle, if you ask me. I can get the trailer close to where I want it, look at the level, set up the Lynxes, and pull/back onto them. Done.

Larry

[coach]

From Dexter Axle

MISCELLANEOUS - Is it okay to jack up my trailer?
Dexter recommends that you do not jack up the trailer on the suspension components because there is always the potential for damage. Bent hangers, leaf springs, or axle tubes can cause bad axle alignment with bad tire wear resulting. Also, many trailer builders do not use Dexter hangers and we have no idea how strong these hangers may or may not be. Therefore, we take the conservative approach and recommend jacking up only on the trailer frame.

[pupateers]

A Bal leveler is the only way to go for leveling, you can find one at many RV stores or online, just google Bal Leveler, they are perfect and work very well. Here is a link to one http://www.popthetop.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=261 and also a quick video on how to use one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuxdJyMU2RY

[Jim K in PA]

[
That's a good way to damage your camper. Never put a jack under the axle or the frame for leveling. They just weren't built for that.

Remember the entire concept of the PU camper is, "Light Weight and low profile".

The "light weight" is accomplished by using the minimal amount of material in manufacturing. Therefore the frame and/or axle is not meant for jacking up the trailer. Doing anything other than what is described in the owners manual may be asking for trouble.

You will find that it is best, over the long term, to treat your PU in the manner that it was designed  :sombraro: .

With all due respect Wayne, if this were true, how does one go about changing a flat tire on the camper?  The ends of the axle are probably the strongest, hardest points on any camper.  My Viking actually has reinforced areas on the frame just ahead of the axles for jacking. :cool:

Honestly, Wayne is right in that you do need to be careful about where you apply a point load on any vehicle, especially with pop ups.  Like Wayne says above, they are built to be light, and that means minimal material in all areas possible.  NEVER jack them up at the corners to level the camper.  However, if you place a scissor jack out near the end of the axle tube, or preferably right under the axle where the spring is bolted to it (between the U-bolts), you should cause no damage.  If you have a torsion axle, there is a large casting that you can place the jack under as well.

I agree with AZsix in that laying on the ground under the camper to set the jack, lift the camper, place the boards, etc. sound like more work than driving the tire up on a couple of boards or Lynx levelers.  Multiply that by eleventy-billion if it is rainy and muddy.

[wavery]

With all due respect Wayne, if this were true, how does one go about changing a flat tire on the camper?  The ends of the axle are probably the strongest, hardest points on any camper.  My Viking actually has reinforced areas on the frame just ahead of the axles for jacking. :cool:

Honestly, Wayne is right in that you do need to be careful about where you apply a point load on any vehicle, especially with pop ups.  Like Wayne says above, they are built to be light, and that means minimal material in all areas possible.  NEVER jack them up at the corners to level the camper.  However, if you place a scissor jack out near the end of the axle tube, or preferably right under the axle where the spring is bolted to it (between the U-bolts), you should cause no damage.  If you have a torsion axle, there is a large casting that you can place the jack under as well.

I agree with AZsix in that laying on the ground under the camper to set the jack, lift the camper, place the boards, etc. sound like more work than driving the tire up on a couple of boards or Lynx levelers.  Multiply that by eleventy-billion if it is rainy and muddy.

Dexter (the manufacturer of most of the PU axles) tends to disagree with you. I believe that post #5 on this thread is a cut & paste from the Dexter website. We have also had a number of posts about bent axle tubes over the years.

Have you ever tried jacking your trailer from this area??? "reinforced areas on the frame just ahead of the axles for jacking". I think that you may find a rather amusing result to trying to jack from the frame, in front of the axle (think about it ). Until you try it, you may want to rethink about suggesting it to others...

To answer your question, "how does one go about changing a flat tire on the camper?"........the best place to put the jack, for changing a tire or servicing bearings (which is not what the OP was asking about), is on the frame.... just behind the rear spring mount. That way, you have 3 weight bearing surfaces. The tire on the ground, the front wheel on the tongue (or even better, the trailer hitch on the TV) and the properly placed jack. I would also recommend placing a 2x4 between the jack and the frame, to help spread the load. In order to jack the camper from in front of the axle, you would need to put the opposite side stabilizer down to keep the trailer tongue from just endlessly pointing skyward :sombraro: . If you do that, you would stand a very good chance of damaging your stabilizer and your frame :banghead: . I seriously doubt that any camper manufacturer would recommend jacking from the frame, in front of the axle.

One may be able to get away with doing a lot of things to these PUs that they were not designed for. However, when a poster asks a question, like this one, I feel it best to let the poster know that there is a "Possibility" of damaging his camper by using it in a way that it was not designed for.

[coach]

The graphic in a Jayco manual is where I jack my PU. I jack the MAIN BEAM (pair of them run front to rear, one on each side of PU), just in front of or just rear of the axle, that is just inside of the tire/wheel. There is a cross member there that prevents the board from rocking while the beam takes the load. My old jack had a hemisphere on the top to fit into a GM vehicle frame. I had a board with a matching hemi to jack the PU.

As Dexter admits, they take the conservative view at axle jacking.

Jayco manual see page 75.

[He Ruide]

Wavery,  I agree with Coach that in some instances it does not make a difference if you place the jack right in front or behind the wheel.  I place my jack in front of the wheel and I have the advantage that the jack is secure between the loop that is used to secure the PUP during transportation and the suspension attachment .  Also recognize that with my deck I have a very long PUP and so my three weight bearing points are spread apart.

I will concede that if you have a very short PUP, then it would be better to have the jack behind the wheel so you spread out the points that are supporting the PUP.

Ruide

[Jim K in PA]

Dexter (the manufacturer of most of the PU axles) tends to disagree with you. I believe that post #5 on this thread is a cut & paste from the Dexter website. We have also had a number of posts about bent axle tubes over the years.

OK Wayne - I'll do my best to avoid a p***ing contest with you.  However, if you read the c&p from the Dexter site, it is clearly a general statement from a FAQ page, and more specifically is addressing jacking under suspension components (suspension hangers, etc.).  The reference to bending the axle is certainly true if you are jacking it in an area that is not designed to be loaded.  The outer end of the axle at the spring perch IS designed to be loaded, in any direction.  Quite a few "axle flips" have been done without damage to the axles, and the loading is 180 degrees opposite to OEM.  I have jacked my Dexter axle under the end of the swing arm casting to install my electric brakes, without issue as well as at the end of the square axle tubing.

Have you ever tried jacking your trailer from this area??? "reinforced areas on the frame just ahead of the axles for jacking". I think that you may find a rather amusing result to trying to jack from the frame, in front of the axle (think about it ). Until you try it, you may want to rethink about suggesting it to others...

Is the pompous and presumptive tone really necessary?  Yes, sir, I have in fact jacked my trailer up IN FRONT of the axle, and no, it did not pivot back onto the rear bumper.  By utilizing the factory provided hard point, the trailer lifted up on the tongue jack and the opposite wheel without incident.  Why?  Because the trailer (any trailer) is designed with a ~10% weight bias TOWARD THE TONGUE.  The hard point on my frame is just about even with wheel edge, resulting in a negligible off-center weight distribution relative to the CoM.

In fact Wayne, I would NOT have suggested to the poster that HE/SHE do so without doing so myself, and furthermore, I did NOT suggest to the poster that THEY do so.  I merely pointed out a design feature on MY camper.  Not theirs; not yours.

To answer your question, "how does one go about changing a flat tire on the camper?"........the best place to put the jack, for changing a tire or servicing bearings (which is not what the OP was asking about), is on the frame.... just behind the rear spring mount. That way, you have 3 weight bearing surfaces. The tire on the ground, the front wheel on the tongue (or even better, the trailer hitch on the TV) and the properly placed jack. I would also recommend placing a 2x4 between the jack and the frame, to help spread the load. In order to jack the camper from in front of the axle, you would need to put the opposite side stabilizer down to keep the trailer tongue from just endlessly pointing skyward :sombraro: . If you do that, you would stand a very good chance of damaging your stabilizer and your frame :banghead: . I seriously doubt that any camper manufacturer would recommend jacking from the frame, in front of the axle.

Wayne, I was responding to your blanket statement: "The "light weight" is accomplished by using the minimal amount of material in manufacturing. Therefore the frame and/or axle is not meant for jacking up the trailer."

If one cannot jack up the trailer by the axle or the frame . . . ? Hence my question.

One may be able to get away with doing a lot of things to these PUs that they were not designed for. However, when a poster asks a question, like this one, I feel it best to let the poster know that there is a "Possibility" of damaging his camper by using it in a way that it was not designed for.

Here I agree with you Wavery, which is why I took exception to your blanket statement that the frame and/or axle is not meant for jacking.

I still think using boards to level the camper is easier.

[wavery]

OK Wayne - I'll do my best to avoid a p***ing contest with you.  However, if you read the c&p from the Dexter site, it is clearly a general statement from a FAQ page, and more specifically is addressing jacking under suspension components (suspension hangers, etc.).  The reference to bending the axle is certainly true if you are jacking it in an area that is not designed to be loaded.  The outer end of the axle at the spring perch IS designed to be loaded, in any direction.  Quite a few "axle flips" have been done without damage to the axles, and the loading is 180 degrees opposite to OEM.  I have jacked my Dexter axle under the end of the swing arm casting to install my electric brakes, without issue as well as at the end of the square axle tubing.



Is the pompous and presumptive tone really necessary?  Yes, sir, I have in fact jacked my trailer up IN FRONT of the axle, and no, it did not pivot back onto the rear bumper.  By utilizing the factory provided hard point, the trailer lifted up on the tongue jack and the opposite wheel without incident.  Why?  Because the trailer (any trailer) is designed with a ~10% weight bias TOWARD THE TONGUE.  The hard point on my frame is just about even with wheel edge, resulting in a negligible off-center weight distribution relative to the CoM.

In fact Wayne, I would NOT have suggested to the poster that HE/SHE do so without doing so myself, and furthermore, I did NOT suggest to the poster that THEY do so.  I merely pointed out a design feature on MY camper.  Not theirs; not yours.



Wayne, I was responding to your blanket statement: "The "light weight" is accomplished by using the minimal amount of material in manufacturing. Therefore the frame and/or axle is not meant for jacking up the trailer."

If one cannot jack up the trailer by the axle or the frame . . . ? Hence my question.



Here I agree with you Wavery, which is why I took exception to your blanket statement that the frame and/or axle is not meant for jacking.

I still think using boards to level the camper is easier.

Woe!!!!! settle down their Kemosabe :sombraro:  No offence was intended....I'm sorry that it came out that way.

[AustinBoston]

The outer end of the axle at the spring perch IS designed to be loaded, in any direction.  Quite a few "axle flips" have been done without damage to the axles, and the loading is 180 degrees opposite to OEM.  I have jacked my Dexter axle under the end of the swing arm casting to install my electric brakes, without issue as well as at the end of the square axle tubing.

I'll bet the real reason they say not to jack by the axle is the same reason I personally would never do it; I use a bottle jack that has a lift point about the size of a quarter, and it would not take much to get that round Dexter axle to slide off it...with a wide variety of very bad results.

Austin

[aw738]

I use the frame behind the spring. My Toas has the springs under the axle. I have heard not to jack up the trailer under the axle there because it could break the springs. It has a 1/4 inch plate under the spring that the u-bolts are attached to, so I think it would be hard to bend the plate enough to break a spring. It that were the case than the first bad road would have broken my springs.