How does packing affect tongue weight?

[acritzer]

Managed to measure my tongue weight, but that's without misc stuff packed in.  Wondering what kind of difference it will make as I pack.  Should I pack near the back, to lessen the increase?
If I pack 500 lbs, what kind of increase might I see on the tongue?

Thanks.

[flyfisherman]

When I add cargo I try and think over the axle with more of the weight going forward. Should I have to place weight to the rear I try and compensate with weight forward. And that's also trying to distrubute the weight between the left and right of the axle so the springs can carry near equal amounts of the load.

Should also mention that I have had the PU weighed when it was loaded to see right where I was at with the GVWR.



Fly

[acritzer]

Maybe I should have said that I'm trying reduce (or keep the same) tongue weight.
I just measured it at 289.  Limit is about 350.  My concern is, how much increase will I see as I start to pack?  My thinking was, I'll try and pack towards the rear of the trailer, to lessen the tongue weight a bit.

[flyfisherman]

Maybe I should have said that I'm trying reduce (or keep the same) tongue weight.
I just measured it at 289.  Limit is about 350.  My concern is, how much increase will I see as I start to pack?  My thinking was, I'll try and pack towards the rear of the trailer, to lessen the tongue weight a bit.

Remember, tounge weight should be between 10 to 15% of the total weight of the trailer, i.e., the GVWR.

Since you have measured the tounge weight ... what is the weight of your empty PU, i.e., the "dry weight"?

[acritzer]

Remember, tounge weight should be between 10 to 15% of the total weight of the trailer, i.e., the GVWR.

Since you have measured the tounge weight ... what is the weight of your empty PU, i.e., the "dry weight"?

Sticker on the side says it was measured out of the factory at 2300 I think.  The confusing thing is that this does include the full propane tank (specifically mentioned on the sticker).  But I don't know if it includes the options, AC, water heater, etc.

[flyfisherman]

Sticker on the side says it was measured out of the factory at 2300 I think.  The confusing thing is that this does include the full propane tank (specifically mentioned on the sticker).  But I don't know if it includes the options, AC, water heater, etc.

I suppose the best place to start is to ask you what brand and model PU you have. That 2300 lbs, is that the GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) - the total weight the trailer is rated to carry - or, is that the dry weight?

The dry weight figures given for models by the manufacturer do not include the weight of optional items like a furnance, water heater, AC, even the awning and such. The dry weight is only for the base camper itself and what comes with it as standard equipment ... such as the cooking stove, the single L/P tank, ect.

[acritzer]

I suppose the best place to start is to ask you what brand and model PU you have. That 2300 lbs, is that the GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) - the total weight the trailer is rated to carry - or, is that the dry weight?

The dry weight figures given for models by the manufacturer do not include the weight of optional items like a furnance, water heater, AC, even the awning and such. The dry weight is only for the base camper itself and what comes with it as standard equipment ... such as the cooking stove, the single L/P tank, ect.

Starcraft 2407, with AC, Furnace, Fridge, Water heater Awning.

[wavery]

As Fly mentioned, it's best to balance the load. Placing weight behind the axle will reduce your tongue weight and may result in dangerous swaying.

If you measure the distance from your hitch ball to your axle, placing 100# half way between the 2 points should place 50# on the trailer axle and 50# on the trailer hitch.

Let's say the distance is 12'. Placing 100# in the very front of the inside of the box may place that load about 6' from the hitch. In order to offset that weight (inside the trailer) you would have to place 200# 3' behind the axle.

Remember, when placing weight forward of the axle a % of that weight is added to the hitch (proportionate to the distance). When placing weight behind the axle, it subtracts weight from the hitch. It's just like a teeter-totter with the axle being the fulcrum point.

[flyfisherman]

Starcraft 2407, with AC, Furnace, Fridge, Water heater Awning.

I finally saw and read your Sienna thread ~ IMHO I think your at the cutting edge of TV vs. PU.

The last thing I would do is load more weight aft in the PU in order to lessen tounge weight ... could be some big time sway issues and if your borderline load towing limit, the sway could get you into some serious trouble. If it 'twere me (and I know you did'nt ask!), I'd go with the air lifts on the Sienna and a sway bar (for sure!). But whatever, I'd keep the tounge weight where it ought to be.

[acritzer]

I finally saw and read your Sienna thread ~ IMHO I think your at the cutting edge of TV vs. PU.

The last thing I would do is load more weight aft in the PU in order to lessen tounge weight ... could be some big time sway issues and if your borderline load towing limit, the sway could get you into some serious trouble. If it 'twere me (and I know you did'nt ask!), I'd go with the air lifts on the Sienna and a sway bar (for sure!). But whatever, I'd keep the tounge weight where it ought to be.

I might be close, but I don't think it's quite THAT close.  Dry weight is about 2200-2300.  Add the options and I imagine it's still quite a bit below 3500?  Right?  

On the Sienna club site I'm getting mostly positive feedback.

[He Ruide]

Ray Cooper has developed a spread sheet which allows you to determine the impact of adding weights at various points from the back of the PUP to the tongue.  He has spreadsheets for PUPs with and without a deck. Just replace his numbers with your distances, dry weights and the new weights added at the various points along the PUP.  Here is the link for his spread sheets.  Note look at the end of his first messages for the updated spreadsheets.

Hope this helps.

Ruide

[flyfisherman]

I might be close, but I don't think it's quite THAT close.  Dry weight is about 2200-2300.  Add the options and I imagine it's still quite a bit below 3500?  Right?  

On the Sienna club site I'm getting mostly positive feedback.

All depends on the weight(s) being hauled ... the weight of the PU plus  whatever cargo you plan to put aboard; AND what you plan on hauling cargo wise in the TV, too. The numbers all add up and as you know, subtracted from the tow rating of the TV.  Which leads back to what I posted before ... when you get what you plan on towing aboard the PU, get the thing weighed at one of those truck stop service centers that have a scale - then you'll know for sure where your at.

[haroldPE]

Sounds like you're on the right track getting your weights figured out.  Suggest you get your gear in and get it weighed.  
  you WANT some good 12-13% weight on the tongue. Not much less.  still shoot for 350# tongue weight, so you keep it safe and keep sway down.

Keep in mind air bags do nothing to balance the vehicle - you need weight distributing hitch for that.  WDH voids warranty of Palomino (frame not strong enough), so I do not use it. WDH is recommended for front wheel drive setups.
 
 my camper has a 'dry' weight of 2475, a max of 3650, and it truly weighs 3050 on the axle plus 420 on tongue - total of 3470.  I have just normal packing. Those "options" add up: fridge, 20# propane, battery, spare tire, awning, water heater & A/C.  Many times these all add on to the "dry" weight.

That's 12% on the tongue I have - it does fine up to 55mph with nothing else, but I need a sway bar to tow at 65mph.
 
 
 

I might be close, but I don't think it's quite THAT close.  Dry weight is about 2200-2300.  Add the options and I imagine it's still quite a bit below 3500?  Right?  
 
  On the Sienna club site I'm getting mostly positive feedback.

[acritzer]

Sounds like you're on the right track getting your weights figured out.  Suggest you get your gear in and get it weighed.  
  you WANT some good 12-13% weight on the tongue. Not much less.  still shoot for 350# tongue weight, so you keep it safe and keep sway down.

Keep in mind air bags do nothing to balance the vehicle - you need weight distributing hitch for that.  WDH voids warranty of Palomino (frame not strong enough), so I do not use it. WDH is recommended for front wheel drive setups.
 
 my camper has a 'dry' weight of 2475, a max of 3650, and it truly weighs 3050 on the axle plus 420 on tongue - total of 3470.  I have just normal packing. Those "options" add up: fridge, 20# propane, battery, spare tire, awning, water heater & A/C.  Many times these all add on to the "dry" weight.

That's 12% on the tongue I have - it does fine up to 55mph with nothing else, but I need a sway bar to tow at 65mph.

I added up my options along with the listed dry weight and it looks to about 2500 (maybe a bit higher).  Measured my current tongue weight and it's about 290.

Going to store it at the in-laws over the winter, so I'll get a chance for a short run on the highway.  I'm interested to see how it handles at speeds past 50.

I have some Airlifts on order, which I'll install soon.  Then I'll work on the junk we're thinking about packing, and plan my positioning.

Hopefully it'll all work out to a safe and comfortable experience.