Tread lightly

[Dray]

To tread lightly means to me making as little impact on the environment as possible.  I like to think that my popup helps me tread lightly when camping.  But how lightly.  I think it's pretty obvious popups have less of an impact than the bigger rv's.  But do popups have less impact then someone camping in a tent?  Perhaps.  Let me explain.  When I park my popup at the cg it's only touching the ground at the wheels, stabilizers and tongue jack.  When I'm inside the PU I'm not standing on the ground I'm on the floor of my PU.  A tent is different.  It touches the ground wherever the floor of the tent is.  When you walk around inside of the tent and sleep you're right on the ground.  When a tent camper cleans up the tent after camping the evidence is clear.  The ground where the tent has been has been heavily used.  You can see where the tent was.  Besides all that I don't think tent campers usually carry their grey/black water to a dump station.

What do you think?  Are we treading lightly?  How light?

[austinado16]

No, IMO we are not treading lighter, or as light as a tent camper.  

First, a tent camper can get to the camp ground in a much more fuel efficient vehicle.  Meanwhile most of us PUPers are towing at 11-20mpg.

Second, The tent camper only needs a place to park their vehicle, and not an improved spot (usually this means leveled and paved with asphalt or concrete) big enough for a PUP that's 15-25' when deployed.

Third, when the tent camper packs up from having their tent parked on the ground for a night or 3, the ground is as it was, and ready for the next tent.

Forth, tent campers generally don't create the amount of waste water, trash or use electric hook ups and water hookups.

But still, I think the average PUPer impact is more in keeping with what camping and camp ground use is all about........as compared to TT's, 5-ers, and MH's.

For those of us who bought used, especially those of us who bought fixers and rebuilt them, we may be "greener" then tenters or anyone else, because we've recycled 2,000-3,500lbs of material.

[CajunCamper]

To tread lightly means to me making as little impact on the environment as possible.  I like to think that my popup helps me tread lightly when camping.  But how lightly.  I think it's pretty obvious popups have less of an impact than the bigger rv's.  But do popups have less impact then someone camping in a tent?  Perhaps.  Let me explain.  When I park my popup at the cg it's only touching the ground at the wheels, stabilizers and tongue jack.  When I'm inside the PU I'm not standing on the ground I'm on the floor of my PU.  A tent is different.  It touches the ground wherever the floor of the tent is.  When you walk around inside of the tent and sleep you're right on the ground.  When a tent camper cleans up the tent after camping the evidence is clear.  The ground where the tent has been has been heavily used.  You can see where the tent was.  Besides all that I don't think tent campers usually carry their grey/black water to a dump station.

What do you think?  Are we treading lightly?  How light?

That's a good point Dray. I think it depends on the attitude of those camping and where they are camping. Although the footprint of the pop up may not be that large, most of us in pop ups even when dry camping tend to bring along lots of toys and we tend to spread out a bit with canopies and outdoor camp kitchens, bikes, kayaks large campfires etc.

When we spend a few days backpacking we tend to bring along a lot less stuff and hike into areas where a pop up and tow vehicle would have a tremendous negative impact on the land. We pack out what we pack in, if we have a campfire, it's typically much smaller and when we brake camp, our tent leaves no more of an impact than a couple of elk that have bedded down for the night.

The campgrounds where most of us set up our pop ups even if it's a state park or national forest campground require cutting down lots of trees and the moving of earth to make way for roads to the campground and within campgrounds, dump stations, underground water lines, bath houses, electric lines, not to mention all the noise and air polution as a result of tow vehicles.

The impact on the land from camping is not determined so much by how big or small your site is or how much you walk around the site, but what you leave behind and how often that spot is used to camp on. In a campground each site is used over and over during the year and that causes more of an impact than anything else.

That being said, spending a few nights in a campground whether in a tent or pop up is so much more ecologically friendly than any other means of lodging.

CajunCamper

[dthurk]

I understand the desire to maintain wilderness areas as wilderness for future generations, leave no trace ethics, etc.  Seems to me that it might behoove us to be more concerned about our environmental impact at home.  We all spend a lot more time at home than we do camping.  Our efforts to be green at home will carry considerably more weight than anything we could accomplish by being more green camping.

[CajunCamper]

I understand the desire to maintain wilderness areas as wilderness for future generations, leave no trace ethics, etc.  Seems to me that it might behoove us to be more concerned about our environmental impact at home.  We all spend a lot more time at home than we do camping.  Our efforts to be green at home will carry considerably more weight than anything we could accomplish by being more green camping.

That's another argument all together, the topic here is concerning camping, not how green we are at home, but since you brought it up, I really don't see why we can't do better in both places and why one is more important than the other.

CajunCamper

[wavery]

To be truly "Green" conscious, one must consider the "Carbon footprint" of the total camping experience.

There is no comparison of the size of the carbon footprint of a towed or powered camper of any sort compared to a tent camper.

The size of the carbon footprint just to manufacture all of the stuff that it takes to build a camper then the manufacture of the camper itself is huge. That's not even including getting it to where you want it.

Now having said all that, let's sit back and watch Mount Redoubt, in Alaska blow and cause more carbon output than man could put out in a million years   .

[flyfisherman]

To tread lightly means to me making as little impact on the environment as possible.  I like to think that my popup helps me tread lightly when camping.  But how lightly.  I think it's pretty obvious popups have less of an impact than the bigger rv's.  But do popups have less impact then someone camping in a tent?  Perhaps.  Let me explain.  When I park my popup at the cg it's only touching the ground at the wheels, stabilizers and tongue jack.  When I'm inside the PU I'm not standing on the ground I'm on the floor of my PU.  A tent is different.  It touches the ground wherever the floor of the tent is.  When you walk around inside of the tent and sleep you're right on the ground.  When a tent camper cleans up the tent after camping the evidence is clear.  The ground where the tent has been has been heavily used.  You can see where the tent was.  Besides all that I don't think tent campers usually carry their grey/black water to a dump station.

What do you think?  Are we treading lightly?  How light?

Here's something to conssider: Below is a pic of one of our "gatherings" at a group site in the Nantahala National Forest. That's my little Starcraft way on the left (snuggled up close to a creek that's just full of brook trout), then a friend's new Chateau and another friend's larger Starcraft, which are all parked in the gravel. Then to the front is a tent which is set up in the grass. Now after a week  the camper's left "no trace" but you should have seen the the brown spot the tent left.






Fly

[coach]

I think reduce comes first, costs nothing. After reduce is reuse (in essence is reduce cuz you don't have to buy something when you reuse something else). LAST is recycle, can be very costly and prohibitive (that's what is great about reduce).

I see a reduce theme here!

The tent camper is greener since they create no grey water and disperse any wash water they have.

If the goal was making as little impact on the environment as possible then count me out! I rather go camping, site seeing, caving, etc than do that!

[Used 2B PopUPTimes]

What does the tent camper do with his gray water? Where does he spit when he brushes his teeth? Where does he do his business? etc etc
When I tent camped it all went on the ground - somewhere.

[PM3579]

For all the reasons listed above, tent campers leave less sign,and cause less impact. Yes if you leave a tent set up for 10 days you will brown some grass. If you came back in 2 or 3 weeks it has greened back up, unless its in the middle of a drought. Tent campers by nature carry and bring less stuff. We as puper's even carry the kitchen sink. Cavers have a saying "Kill nothing but time, Take nothing but pictures, Leave nothing but foot prints". I have been a camper for 30+ years, only been in a pup for 18months of that 30+. I've been a caver for 23+ yrs, I've tent camped &caved most of the eastern US, with thousands of fellow cavers. 99% of cavers tent camp and when they leave an area you would be hard pressed to find where they were except for some trampled grass.  :usflag:

[PM3579]

Dave, in my camp gray water and tooth brush spit go in a gray water hole dug in an out of the way place for this purpose. Business is done in the area supplied by the camp ground, if no area is supplied it goes in a hole in an appropiate area away from water and traffic. These holes are filled in and the sod flipped back over to leave the area as undisturbed as possible. :usflag: