Global Warming

[LimeJeeeep]

//www.rainbowpush.org....these are the folks where by protesting in lobbys of local banks , bank and other fortune 500 corporate headqarters,and then congress.extorting through the media the banking institutions to lower the lending standards (MORE G,MENT CONTROL NOT LESS )

We should develop all means of energy ,including eliminating tax on domestic production of fossil fuel.and stop sending all the money to our enemies

[Shredder]

//www.rainbowpush.org....these are the folks where by protesting in lobbys of local banks , bank and other fortune 500 corporate headqarters,and then congress.extorting through the media the banking institutions to lower the lending standards (MORE G,MENT CONTROL NOT LESS )

We should develop all means of energy ,including eliminating tax on domestic production of fossil fuel.and stop sending all the money to our enemies

Oh you mean rainbow coalition? Jesse Jackson's group? and they caused corporations and the g,ment to bend to their will? and this caused the current financial crisis? For me it's a stretch to follow that logic.

As to eliminating tax on our domestic production of fossil fuel. I guess gas would be cheap for the short term, then what? Maybe if we had real alternatives financed by (not taxes), what?    When gas gets cheap there's no will to advance alternatives, I think we learned that back in Jimmy Carter's day. Remember his warnings on depending on foreign oil?  Then gas got cheap and nothing happened.........       Shredder

[viking camper]

.

As to whether pop uppers do not share my concern on the environment, perhaps I went too far.

Shredder

I found alot of conviction in your response. I just don't agree with everything.
In this day and age it is hard to filter all the information coming at you. From the newspapers to the internet. From TV shows to the news (CNN or fair and balanced?).
I don't think you need to worry if you went to far. I did not take offense. I was a little suprised but that just shows you believe in what you are saying. I hope during our life times solutions for all the issues facing future popup campers (and the non-campers too!) can be found.

Happy and safe camping

[CajunCamper]

Sorry you feel that way. You posted this 32,000 scientist sign a petition stuff, apparently without looking too far into it. I did. So now you attack the messenger?..........Shredder

Shredder,

I applaud you for doing what you can do to clean up the environment, I think most of us here take extra measures to be "green" these days. If this whole global warming issue has done anything, it has raised awareness that we need to be better at protecting our planet. I remember when plants and factories used to dump their toxic waste into our rivers and oceans. It has been cleaned up over the years to a large degree. That was easy to put a finger on recognize a problem and then point to a cause. This whole Global Warming/Climate Change issue is not as easy.

Just like someone mentioned the ice caps on Mars are melting and the temps there have fluctuated at about the same percentage rate as here on earth. There may be some issues with the sun radiating more heat that we need to consider, it surely can't be man made there.

I don't have all the answers and neither do the experts, but I think it's irresponsible to base global policy on theory. We humans are an aweful arrogant bunch to think that we know so much and have that much of an effect on the universe. Scientist will lecture on what happened 10 billion years ago during the formation of the universe, but they can't tell us where Jimmy Hoffa is and he only disappeared 30 somthing years ago.

There's money to be made with the global warming issue and that brings out all kinds from both sides. Our friend Al Gore ownes a large stake in the group that will be handling the cap and trade exchange, he stands to make hundreds of millions.

Anyway I really posted to say Shredder, we're all good, I think we agree more than we disagree.

CajunCamper

[wavery]

I guess they could be wrong and  the overwhelming number of scientists who study this could be wrong, but at least by looking at evidence you start to get the picture. The pace and amount are open to question. Some may never ever believe any evidence, until it hits them. Heck a  lot of people still do not believe we landed on the moon.

I'm one of the people that are not completely convinced that we ever landed on the Moon. I am convinced that our gvm't is capable of contriving almost anything. You see, our gvm't has very little credibility and that's nothing new.. Take the nuclear weapons and WMD program that Iraq had......remember all of the "Irrefutable proof" (I thought I was going to barf when Colin Powell said that) that was presented to the UN by Collin Powell? Remember all of the pictures of the nuclear facilities under construction and huge trucks that were delivering missile parts and bomb making parts?  ALL PHONY!!!!! Remember all of the pics of mobile chemical labs?? ALL phony!!!! Would it have been hard to phony the Moon landing video? Not at all and there was plenty of political reason to do it at the time. When it comes to gvm't....it's ALL about agenda....

Have you ever seen recent pictures of the "Junk" left on the Moon? I haven't. Why hasn't Hubble taken some pics of it?

Yes there are agendas involved in all of the global warming and climate change "theories", just like there was an agenda in WMDs in Iraq. Is it bad to conserve??? Of course not.....will it "save our planet"? I think that's a bit naive and yes, maybe event arrogant on our part.

A single volcanic irruption can make more of a climate change than all that man has done or can do in thousands of years (short of nuclear annihilation). Does that excuse us from abusing our environment??? I don't think so.....no more than us having an excuse to beat our kids just because the guy down the street does it.

[coach]

sample size is way too small, period.

'The good news is that as fewer people turn to the old dieing media outlets for their news, turning instead to the new media for news, the new media outlets are in a position to inform the public of the real science and the findings of the climate realists.'

Doesn't turning off the lights for an hour solve it?
Oh, I had to turn them on before I could turn them off, wanted to do my turning them off part, guess I should of just left them off!

[LimeJeeeep]

you get the typing award ......i will never agree with you and so far Obama(he who walks on water) hasn,t taken my right to disagree

[wavery]

you get the typing award ......i will never agree with you and so far Obama(he who walks on water) hasn,t taken my right to disagree

YET!!!!  :compumad:

[AustinBoston]

I'm one of the people that are not completely convinced that we ever landed on the Moon. I am convinced that our gvm't is capable of contriving almost anything. You see, our gvm't has very little credibility and that's nothing new.

But it's been able to keep 10,000 people quiet (probably more) for 40 years?  If you believe what you do about the government, then that is virtual proof that the moon landings were real.

Take the nuclear weapons and WMD program that Iraq had......remember all of the "Irrefutable proof" (I thought I was going to barf when Colin Powell said that) that was presented to the UN by Collin Powell? Remember all of the pictures of the nuclear facilities under construction and huge trucks that were delivering missile parts and bomb making parts?  ALL PHONY!!!!!

And all totally exposed.  That was something the government that really, really wanted you to believe. But it was something they weren't capable of keeping the lid on for even a year or two...but what would have to have been a much bigger fraud...they've kept the lid on for 40 years?  The credibility rule leans very strongly in one direction.

Remember all of the pics of mobile chemical labs?? ALL phony!!!! Would it have been hard to phony the Moon landing video? Not at all.

Actually, it's still almost impossible today.  There is one thing that nobody, anywhere has ever been able to fake.  Until the advent of computers millions of times more powerful than anything NASA (or anyone else in the world) had, nobody was even able to suggest a way it could be faked.  In all those videos, no matter how much dust they kicked up, they never ended up with a cloud of dust.  Today, it could be CG'd.  With those old computers, they'd just be getting to the 32nd frame (one second) of the video.  It was done in space.

Have you ever seen recent pictures of the "Junk" left on the Moon? I haven't. Why hasn't Hubble taken some pics of it?

The smallest thing the Hubble could take photos of on the moon would be the size of a sports stadium or larger.  The biggest piece of junk we left on the moon was smaller than a one-car garage.

But...the lazer reflectors left on the moon by the astronauts are still there, and are still used hundreds of times a year to measure the precise distance to the moon...within inches.  The astronomers using them rely on them...because they are really there.

Oh, and this is from people not working for the govm't:
direct evidence of apollo 15 on the moon

During the whole of every flight, the Soviet Union monitored every bit of radio traffic.  They had an extremely powerful political motive to debunk the whole thing - we beat them.  But they have never even suggested that it was faked.  Was it because they knew it wasn't?

One more thing...near the bottom of this page: Japanese probe of Apollo sites are a pair of images...one made by a stereo camera pair on the Japanese probe currently in lunar orbit, then asembled from the astronaut's perspective (much the way Google Earth allows projecting satellite imagry onto a terain map to see mountins in 3D), the other made by Apollo 15 astronauts.  (The Japanese probe image is only showing the background, miles away).  Since there was no way to know and fake the terrain in this much detail at the time, the Apollo photos could only have been taken on the moon itself.

Lunar landing science is real, and cost a fortune.  Moon hoax gobledygook is free, and sells books and interviews.

Austin

PS - None of this evidence will be accepted by solid hoaxers.  Either they will say NASA had some way of faking the photos anyway, or they will claim that the Japanese government was paid off (or threatended) by our government.  The firm hoax believers will never accept any evidence.  I have dealt with some who would not believe, even if they were loaded onto a spacecraft and flown to the moon to be shown in person.

[coach]

Moon hoax gobledygook is free, and sells books and interviews.

How is that any different from the topic at hand?
One difference is the cost of all this green stuff - 1/2 of the four CFL I have failed within minutes of install! I've got regular incandescnts that don't get used often that have lasted 10+ years, some 20+

[JohnandLeann]

I've got regular incandescnts that don't get used often that have lasted 10+ years, some 20+

And they are not considered hazardous waste either like CFL's.  We have to handle florescent bulbs at work as hazardous material and dispose of them accordingly.

[Shredder]

There's money to be made with the global warming issue and that brings out all kinds from both sides. Our friend Al Gore ownes a large stake in the group that will be handling the cap and trade exchange, he stands to make hundreds of millions.

Anyway I really posted to say Shredder, we're all good, I think we agree more than we disagree.

CajunCamper

Do you have a source for Al gore making money on cap and trade? I looked (google) and could not find any. I thought the US government wanted to sell carbon permits that companies could buy, sell or trade. In the end it would cost more to send carbon emissions into the air. That would cost us more for electric produced by dirtier things like coal and make incentives for electric produced by cleaner technologies like wind and solar. I can see how companies who are ahead of the curve could clean up, and companies who resist change could fall behind, is this what Al's doing?

One thing about all this is if I'm wrong were out some money and the earth is a little cleaner, if I'm right, well lets just say the downside is much bigger.......Shredder

edit I found this on Al Gore He is chairman of an investment company that takes stakes in grean companies        from wiki:


Generation Investment Management LLP  
Type Independent, private, owner-managed partnership
Founded 2004
Headquarters  London, England
 Washington, D.C.
Key people Al Gore, Chairman
David Blood, Managing Partner
Mark Ferguson, Chief Investment Officer
Peter Harris, Chief Operating Officer
Peter S. Knight, President of Generation U.S.
Colin le Duc, Head of Research
Employees 32 (2008)
Website //www.generationim.com
Generation Investment Management LLP (GIM) is a London-based investment management firm with an investment style that blends traditional equity research with a focus on sustainability factors, including social and environmental responsibility and corporate governance.

Former U.S. Vice President Al Gore is chairman of Generation, and David Blood

[coach]

I'm all for returning the earth to its state some 4.6+ billion years ago when not much life existed. It is a shame what has happened to earth since then. How much would that cost?

[Shredder]

you get the typing award ......i will never agree with you and so far Obama(he who walks on water) hasn,t taken my right to disagree

 :-() I barely passed 9th grade typing (40 words per minute) and now I get an award. I owe it all to spell check.  :-()

Hey, we may agree on something sooner or later, we both like camping, right?
You may not like our new president but 70% of Americans think he is doing a good job. I'm willing to give him a chance to succeed, if he does, we all do......Shredder

[coach]

I can't find any poll that has Obama at 70% (3/2009). See previous sample size comment! Facts, just facts or state it is opinion!

Where does the money go and why is it always about spending my money?

He has succeeded to cause 'generational theft'. I don't think that will turn out well, but hey, I don't have any off spring cause that would strain the envirment.