RE: 500 members? I doubt it....

[bearbait]

 What s the point?

[cooncreekers]

 bearbait
[]  hang on, i gotta get my chair all situated just so.. there i got it, now for a drink, some popcorn........ok [8D]
 
 
 ahhh, so good to have things back to normal []

[sandykayak]

 bearbait
whew!  I thought it was me...i just posted a private message to somebody else asking if she thought things were quiet or if it was because we have several different forums.
 
 Now I ve had to start checking the product review and O/T ones...and I just saw SZQ is the last poster on the bargain emporium.....that woman has cost me beaucoup money!   the pop-up screen room was the best one.

[kathybrj]

 bearbait
My view of this forum is different, I guess. I don t come here for entertainment or excitement value. I come here for info, which I get, quite readily. Right now, my camper is under 3+ feet of snow and I m in the middle of my tax prep service season. The activity of the board currently makes it easy for me to keep up on topics. And, with our other winter activities going on, my mindset is just not on camping right now. How many more threads can we start about the weather?Also, I don t find any redeeming value in watching members call each other names and bring each other down. Good natured, mature debate is always interesting.
 
 I belong to one other board, but the speed and connection are so deathly slow that it makes it a real ordeal just to post there. I don t find much in content at the other board either- lots of chit chat and rehashed topics over and over.
 
 I believe the board will become more active as we head into the spring and summer months. If it doesn t, it doesn t. Excitement value wasn t my reason for joining, so my point of view is what it is. I m more than happy to be here.
 
 <Oh, hey and no inquires about where I DO go for excitement on the internet....[] >

[Trlrboy]

 bearbait
Bairbait, don t get so down on yourself, most people don t care whether there are 500 members or 50.  You shouldn t feel that it s up to you to perk up the board with this kind of drivel.  I m sure you were just joking but some people might take it seriously.  Good luck.

[Ab Diver]

 bearbait
Lee, I see your point(s). Hopefully, others will read your post in the spirit in which it was presented. Discussion? Yes. Spirited? Perhaps. Flag-burning, in your face, take no prisoners and make no concessions radicalism? Not hardly. []
 
 One thing that may be a problem is how a person view s the different forums. With so many different places to post, it can be very hard to keep up with individual threads. You have to go to one forum, catch up, then another forum, catch up, post, then another forum, etc. By the time you get done, you ve forgotten to check one or two forums, and things can get lost.
 
 Choosing the " Today s Posts"  viewing option will only give you the last 50 posts. Same with the " Posts Since Last Visit"  option, unless less than 50 messages have been posted since your last visit. I miss replies all the time that are posted during my work day.  And a lot of posts by a particular club or group ( Nick-Neff-Cough in particular) can move other topics off the list in a hurry, possibly discouraging other members who have little interest in a California club s banter.
 
 The " Most Active Topics"  option will show threads that have been replied to the most, regardless of their relevancy to date. In other words, if we all posted to a thread about where we were going to camp on January 15th, and it received 100 replies, it would stay at the top of the list. That doesn t need to be there a month later. It seems an " Active *Topics* Since Your Last Visit"  option would work better for many of us. This would also help insure questions get answered. Case in point:  If a person doesn t visit the " Fix It"  forum on a regular basis, a newbie s post on " Why doesn t my (insert noun here) work?"  can go unanswered for a long time.
 
 As for the member count, I don t know if that includes trial memberships and/or guests. Admin will have to weigh in on that issue. But every forum I ve ever looked at has more " members"  than " posting members" , and more " posting members"  than " active posting members" . Last I looked, PUT was still over 70% for a member/posting member ratio. That s not too bad. There will always be lurkers on any forum. If we want them to participate more,  it s our job to make them feel welcome when they do finally post.
 
 When you figure that this is traditionally a slow time of the year on the forum, it may explain part of the reason for a slow board. Like I said earlier, you ve made some good points. In the end, it s really not *how many we are*, but *how we help each other* that counts. I ll take a smaller group that helps each other over a larger group that doesn t any day.
 
 (kicks box back to center of group for the next person)  
 
 Mmmmm... that smells good. Can somebody please pass the popcorn?

[pinhi18]

 bearbait
Too early in the season for most of us to take any trips.  I know most of my major trip planning was completed by Dec. for this coming summer.  I went to the RV show at the end of Jan. and not all that much is happening in Feb.  I m sure the board will start to heat up when people take their spring break trips, or take delivery on their new PU ordered at one of the shows.  What attracts me to this board is the wealth of info shared by it s members.

[Wayfarer]

 bearbait
I have to agree that the PUT Forum just ain?t what it used to be.  Back ?BC? (before the change) you could ask a question about camping or whatever and get all kinds of responses by folks willing to contribute their thoughts or experiences on the subject.  Being something of a newbie I sought and got a lot of help from the PUT forum and really looked forward to getting back to the forum and seeing what others were saying in response to my questions or thoughts and in response to others.  Also found that I could add ideas or experiences every now and then.
 
 Lately, it seems there are not too many folks responding to things having to do with camping in general and PU?ing in particular.  I have posted two or three questions having to do with camping in certain states or campgrounds and received little or no meaningful response.  So, to find out how the response was on other boards I posted a question on PUT and then posted the exact same thing on PUX and iRV2 and, folks, PUX and iRV2 have it over PUT by a long shot.  (And just in case you go looking on the other boards I?ve posted under names other than ?Wayfarer? as well as under Wayfarer.)   While I still visit PUT as much as I do the other boards I am finding I get more meaningful help from the others.  Seems on PUT we get a lot of threads where the same guys are just fooling around and throwing jibes at one another which, as someone above has pointed out, only serves to keep their threads on top and pushing other threads further down the page and out of sight.  These threads, you may notice, usually have little if anything to do with camping.  I fear PUT may have created a Mutual Admiration Society.  Hope not!
 
 I?ll hang in and where I can contribute to the ?cause? as far as camping is concerned and hope things improve over time and make it worth my time to renew when the time comes.

[Gamecock Camper]

 bearbait
I believe in quality and not quantity.  I know that I am the second most poster on the PUT boards (since the changes), but I also see that the last 10 posts by bearbait were made over the last 10 days.  One post a day is hardly the way to involve yourself in this site.  I sometimes have senseless or non-camping posts, but I try to include my opinions on the topics presented on this board.  The camping posts will come as it is still February, and most people who participate on this forum will not be camping until March, April or May.  
 
 I do see part of your point, and that is that this board is not quite as active as it was before the " change" , but I am not surprised and you shouldn t be either.   Not everyone agrees with or is willing to pay for this priveledge.  I feel that this is a good and friendly place.  If you don t feel the same way, then maybe it is time for you to move on.  Nobody is forcing you to post here or stay here.........the only reason I am stating that is that this place has been a friendly and family like site.  If you don t feel like you are part of the family, then I hate that you feel that way.  It would probably be more constructive if you posted in a more freindly manner..... but that is just how I approach things....

[marin]

 bearbait
I m just curious as to how many posts you need to make per day, to be " involved in this site" ?

[ShirleyT]

 bearbait
*SIGH* Some folks just aren t happy unless there is conflict of some sort going on. Who really cares if there are 500 charter members, members or trial members? I like the folks here and I would be here if there were only 20 members. I paid my money and have the right to post or not to post and don t have to give reasons for doing either, nor do I expect anyone else to have to give reasons for posting or not posting. I like the campfire forum and it is the reason I decided to stay with PUT.
 
 And that s all I got to say about that.

[bearbait]

 Trlrboy
[]

[moderator1]

 bearbait
Lee,
 
 First of all I hope your post does not cause anyone to flame you.  I don?t think it?s drivel, actually far from it. It was well thought out and addresses several themes that I can identify (maybe more). The issues I see you raising are:
 
 [ul]
 

• The number of Arvee Members
• Members posting at multiple sites, possibly reducing the value of the PUT boards
• Apparent lack of club related benefits
[/ul]
 
 
 

The number of Arvee Members
 Yes, there are 500 members on this board.  But as other have pointed out those numbers can be misleading at times.  They do include 2 member households and trial members.  Two members households are a minor number of the memberships (fewer than 20).  Less than 100 trial memberships have been given out, and over 10% of them have converted to full memberships.  On the last board before we switched, we had close to 5000 members but fewer than 400 posted multiple times.  When you got down to who posted more than 50 times you were well less than 50 people.  The numbers can be confusing, and this happens at every board.  Additionally, we don?t delete trial members if they choose not to join because; just like the old board that then leaves posts out there with no author name.  It ends up more confusing trying to figure out who said what.
 
 Members posting at multiple sites, possibly reducing the value of the PUT boards
 
 
 All of here at PUT never thought that this would be the only place on the web for folks to post about pop up camping.  Multiple sites provide additional exposure to our chosen recreational activity, which I see as a positive for the pop up industry.
 
 Additionally, through the years of the previous boards many friendships developed between members of the boards.  When our site changed, some people chose to post other places.  Many of our current members also visit other sites to continue those friendships as well as to see what else is happening out there.  If a question happens to be posted on another board and one of our members has an answer for that person it is only right that it get answered.
 
 Apparent lack of club related benefits causing the ?natives to be restless?
 
 I must admit, I really haven?t seen this attitude. Obviously, the value of a membership is going to be different to different people because what they see as benefits is going to be different.  You are correct in stating ?How many sets of tacky lights, t-shirts, bunk end covers and paha que tents does each member need??.  
 
 The first benefit I think most members agree on is the ability to have a space dedicated to pop up camping with sufficient resources to make participation enjoyable.  This was the main reason PUT decided to go to a pay site format.  Due to the costs associated with the site PUT had two choices:
 
 1. Switch to a pay/membership site
 2. Discontinue the boards entirely
 
 Compared to the other sites out there, PUT is a business.  If it doesn?t pay it?s way it goes away.  The other boards freely admit that they loose money and are looking for ways to support themselves.  While it is a laudable goal to try to provide the services free of charge, there still needs to be sufficient funds to support a site with sufficient Internet resources.  As kathybrj stated about another site ?I belong to one other board, but the speed and connection are so deathly slow that it makes it a real ordeal just to post there.?.  This is what I see as one of the main benefits of membership.  Other benefits have been announced, and others are n the works.  I can only say I trust Dave at this word that he will make it worth the money.
 
 Now my opinion of the state of affairs here
 
 I must admit that when PUT made the decision to change formats I thought the site was dead and I told Dave so.  When I saw how many people signed up immediately I began to believe it could survive, but would take a while to get back to it?s old self, I thought about a year.  I now think that sometime this summer we will have regained most of the regular camping related postings.  The feel of ?home? has already returned and I look forward to a more positive attitude.
 
 Voicing concerns
 No one should feel uncomfortable voicing concerns regarding anything that goes on here.  If someone does not feel like posting a comment on the board, Dave, Steve and I get lots of e-mail each day and would welcome peoples thoughts of the direction we are taking.
 
 

[birol]

 bearbait
Ok, I sort of feel that some people might not be happy with the chatter/blabber going on in the campfire forum.
 
 As I am not an actual camper (spritiually I am), I stay at campfire unless I can add any value in the General forum. I post a lot in campfire. I think, campfire is what it is, a campfire where we talk, chat & have fun. I think as the camping season is not there yet, that s why most members are idling away there as well. I know we lost a lot of emmbers but, I remember, last year these months it was slow too (If my memory is not misleading me).
 
 Now that I justified my endless chatter there, I will keep quiet [] I hope I am not irritating anybody at campfire.
 
 For me, PUT is home, I learned a lot here, I still have lots of friends here (even though I miss quitea  few of them) and I will probably stay PUT (pun intended []) until I am banned or something worse happens.
 
 
 Birol
 
 

[NightOwl]

 bearbait
Bearbait, I wonder how far back you go with PUT?  I have said MORE THAN ONCE that back on  UltrBoard we had  not as many members active as we do EVEN  here, and the post numbers for each day were small.  NO BODY CARED!!  We were a close-knit group.  and this closeness is what made PUT a success, not huge numbers of  hit-and-run newbies asking constant and repetitive questions although we always welcomed them.  Some asked their questions and left, and others joined in and added greatly to the fun and the bonds which made the board what it has become today.
 
 As someone pointed out, there are varied reasons for belonging here.  BARGAINS and DISCOUNTS were NOT among mine  nor was having lots of posts everyday just chock full of information.  I know that if I ask a question here, someone will answer it.  (Actually thanks to past expperience AT PUT I have few, if any, off-season questions.)
 
 Like birol, I am here because I love camping and outdoor life AND the kind of people who hang out here. It IS a kind of cyber-home for some of us and  for me it is worth the fee.  And as kathy said, if there were only 20 members here, I d still continue to pay my money.
 
 
 Having said all that, I dont take offense at your post and think you have raised some legitimate concerns in this thread.  Your remarks have   given  the administrators and members issues to ponder which will make the board a more effective  and useful  place because it calls into question for all of us WHY WE STAY HERE when there are several really good and informative free sites out there.   I dont think anyone is stupid enough to believe we have 500 paying members, but still, that number does prove that there are 500 people interested enough in PUT to sign in.
 
 I dont think your remarks deserve to be flamed by ANYONE  and hope we have all grown beyond that.     Seems like it is the WHY of our memberships that is at the center of ypur concerns.  You obviously expect other things from this site than several of the rest of us.  And it is very good that you have pointed  out this difference because for some " purists"   I am sure the new PUY  Board is a disappointment.  And if PUT cannot meet their needs, they will leave.
 
       This thread  gives Dave and his staff the opportunity to examine where they want this board to go.  If it  doesnt exist for profit, then what exactly do they see as its mission?   Perhaps they  want to encourage an interest in popup camping and at the same time,   to create (as they have very successfully done) some very warm  cyber-friendships between people of varied types  who live in different parts of the country, have different jobs and incomes, are  of different ages, religions, ethnic backgrounds, and  experiences.  This is NOT a bad  thing in a world which is now  torn by hatred and divisiveness.