Rear brakes of the TV

[notrailends]

The drums are shot.You see where they have broken chunks of metal
missing around the rim,that because the last person who did the brakes use a hammer to get the drums off.Thats because of that lip that formed on the inside of the drum. If the drums go to thin then you also can blow out your wheel cylenders when you hit the brake and the brake fluid will come out and you will have NO brakes at all
I have seen this happen belive me its not worth it.You dont have to go to the dealer for brakes you can get after market thaey are goog also
The most important thing when towing is stopping please change your brakes

[Gone-Camping]

The outside edge of the drum is not the business end of it. The braking surface looks like there is plenty there, should just need turning. The missing chunks are not likely to effect anything there, except maybe throw the wheel balance off a little. Some one else pointed out that a garage or shop will tell if you if those drums are no longer servicable or not, as they surely want to sell you a new pair!
 
I wouldn't base this decision on the opinions expressed or found on the internet, as you can't rely on it. Info such as rear brakes doing the brunt of the work lead you in the wrong direction, no matter how loaded the vehicle is. When you hit the brakes, what does the vehicle do? It pitches forward, shifting all the weight to the front, while the rear wheels nearly leave the ground. Those rear brakes don't do much at all, just help you stop in a straight line rather than the rear whipping around on you.
 
I don't intend to debate the merits of front or rear brakes either, I've spent the last 15 years behind the wheel of a tow truck, and working in and around a shop. No, I'm not a certified mechanic, but I do know which brakes do the work, and which ones don't! BTW Birol, the Ford dealership I'm working for now would charge you an arm & leg for new drums too, but only in US Arms & Legs, much cheaper than Canadian Arms & Legs!!!

[aw738]

Birol I am an ASE certified parts specialist if that means anything to anyone that reads this. ASE Certification . First the front brakes do the majority of the stopping of a vehicle. Ask anyone who rides a motorcycle what happens when you use the rear brake with more force than the front. If no one knows you lock up the rear wheel and if you are lucky you release it and apply the front before you crash. The same holds true for an automobile. Automobile brakes are controled front to rear by a propotioning valve on older vehicles and the ABS computer on newer vehicles. Don't get me wrong the rear brakes are important.

I work for one of the largest auto part companies in the US and we have the prices that you have found beat by quite a bit. I am sure that a local parts store can get you the parts cheaper than where you originaly priced them. Shop around. Car dealers are the last place that you want to buy parts. The prices are highly inflated. Using my companies website I found the following prices in USD:

Drums
        Store brand  $47.28 each
        Bendix         $57.48 each

Shoes
        Store brand  $15.88 for both sides
                          $5.00 core charge (this is a deposit on returning the old ones)
        Bendix         $30.94 for both sides
                          $15.00 core charge

This should give you something to base your shopping on allowing for exchange rates, etc. As far as used brake parts I wouldn't take the chance with them. The brakes are something worth spending money on. Also factor in the cost of having the used drums turned.

[Gone-Camping]

Well, I just got picture #9 to come in, and see there is a chip missing from the inside of one of the drums. While a new set of drums would certainly look better, I'd be willing to bet if you got them turned they would get by for a while longer. It does appear they need some serious adjusting though!

[birol]

bad news

I changed the front pads and bad news

The left front cylinder leaked some oil from through the rubber thingie magicie when I pushed it back with the C-Clamp No hydraulic fluid came out from the reservoir. Closed it up and went to the left front. No oil leake but again no spill over from the reservoir.

I test drove the car and braking performance is definitely less than before I changed the front pads !!!!! After I took the drums off and off I tested the car and braking performance was the usual performance I am used to. But after I changed the front pads, it cusked . Excessive pedal travel for sure. probably needs hydraulic fluid I will ask the dealer tomorrow to pay attention to what brakes need !

I hope I can fix that cylinder leak myself ! Does it require a new Caliper ?

Thanks for all your help .......

[aw738]

If you had brake fluid coming out around the caliper piston then it should be changed. It isn't going to last too much longer. As far as the soft pedal it is cause from pushing all the fluid out of the caliper and back into the master cylinder. You should always pump the pedal before moving the vehicle. Be causious doing so as to just pump in short strokes. If rust has formed in the master cylinder beyond the point that the piston usually travels it could damage the internal seal on the piston. Also if you get brake fluid on your pads/shoes it won't cause them to slip it will cause them to GRAB!!!!! This is not good.

[notrailends]

Please do not take this the wrong way I mean nothing by it
I dont think you have enough experience to work on your brakes
I think you should not attempt to do any repairs at least on your brakes.
I would really recomend a professional to do the repairs.Please I mean nothing buy it.Good Luck

[birol]

I AM SO UPSET AT YOU NOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!


Actually not I know I don't have enough experience with detailed stuff, but I will never learn anything if I do not ask and experiment little bit. That is why I keep asking here and in Toyota techies group. The moment I am told that I am way over my head, I don't hesitate to pay the pros to do the job for me. I changed the pads, that saved me some bucks I am happy. I am not going to change the caliper with all the bleeding stuff ...... it is the easy stuff I try to do. Your comments are appreciated

Please do not take this the wrong way I mean nothing by it
I dont think you have enough experience to work on your brakes
I think you should not attempt to do any repairs at least on your brakes.
I would really recomend a professional to do the repairs.Please I mean nothing buy it.Good Luck

[aw738]

I wish more people were like you Birol when it comes to working on their vehicles. I mean knowing when to get help before they get in over their heads.

[Gone-Camping]

If you had fluid going out the seals, then it's possible you got some air coming in too. This would of course mean you'll need to bleed the brakes. However, leaking seals in the caliper are not field repairable. You'll need to get some new ones (rebuilt ones are an option). Once they are on, you'll still need to bleed the brakes (all four wheels would be recommended)....
 
While the caliper may be working at this time, and you might be able to bleed them, in time you're likely to find them sticking, and that will eat up the brake pads quickly. You might be all right for a while if you bleed them, but I think you're going to need to do a complete brake job... sooner than later! Good luck!
 
Do you know how to bleed them? It's not difficult, but you'll need 2 people to do it...

[birol]

I am just about to take it to the dealer .. I will see what they say and decide whether I want to tackle a few things myself or not..... I will probably let them change the caliper though .....I didn't like the brake performance at all yesterday.

[wynot]

I am just about to take it to the dealer .. I will see what they say and decide whether I want to tackle a few things myself or not..... I will probably let them change the caliper though .....I didn't like the brake performance at all yesterday.

Unless your Ford dealer is better than ours - why don't you go to a reputable independent shop?  I trust my independent shops which have never stuck me compared to the Ford dealer which always tried to stick me.
 
Brakes are not inherently difficult to work on, they're actually pretty simple, but you do have some tricky things you have to keep track of while bleeding, and changing pads, etc..
 
I, for instance, found that I can't readily change the rear pads on my Audi at home because of two tools needed for the parking brake mechanism.  And, I've been working on vehicles for over 35 years.

[Tim5055]

Unless your Ford dealer is better than ours - why don't you go to a reputable independent shop?  

I agree. Very few things will get me to take a car to a dealer.

[birol]

We have been pretty happy with our Ford dealer ... Have been going to the for over 5 years now. When we bought the 98 Windstar we took it to the dealer we bought it from and I wasn't happy with their service at all, so we switched it to the dealer we normally go to (where we took both the 96, and 01 Windstar).

Here it comes , they cheked the brakes !

Both front calipers need to be changed ! 130 bucks each plus hour of labor !

Both rear cylinders need to be changed !  75 bucks each plus labor !

They found the drums servicable actually ! They will machine them and put them back ! Back shoes are alos within limits and doesn't need to be changed !

Total cost is guesstimated to be above 500 bucks  !

The good news is the extended warranty will pay for for everything except the 50 bucks deductible and the 45 bucks to machine the drums !

I am laughing !!!!!!! I knew it would pay to purchase that premium extended warranty with the car ! It is Ford's own extended warratny and they do not skimp on it or make life difficult ! The 1996 Windstar got a new engine and had a total of 8K on warranty claims ! That was cheap insurance for 1K (C$) on that car. 1998's warranty cost 1,400 bucks but it is for 4 years with another year or two to go I gotta check.

So I am out of pocket for 95 bucks !!!!! I was hoping that warranty would cover some stuff and it did hehehehhehe

To boot, they also checked (free) the hitch I got from wynot and said that it is installed properly and that I can use it to tow a trailer ! The frame thingie magicie didn't have the holes for the third pair of bolts and nuts to go through, so they drilled (free) it nicely for me ! I am to put int eh group 8 nut and bolt and washer. They said when the hitch is not being installed at the bottom of the frame (bolt, strengthener, nut in this sequence), no use to put stuff into the frame as it won't strengthen anything ....This hitch insatlles horizontally across the frame ...

Anyways, since the caliper was leaking and so were the cylinders, they recommend that I do not drive it. So I got a ride home on a brand new freestar

Thanks for all the feedback and advise.

Thanks to the moderator for moving this thread where it belonged. I should have known better ....

[Jeffrey]

Extended warrenty???
Why didnt you mention that? Why even try to fix it yourself then?

I also buy warrenties for as long as they will sell. (usually 5yr /100,000)
I tend to drive them for a long time, and IMO towing is hard on them or else I'm just hard on them? And have a pretty good dealer that I trust.
Well, I trust them when I don't have to pay the bill anyway. I will see after the warrenty is over.

 So far I have had $5400 claims on my Safari ($1200) warrenty. And it happens to be at my dealer Right now, for front end work. Have to get all the bugs out before it runs out in Nov.

In Nov it should have nearly 100,000 and will still be in good shape thanks to the warrenty work.