Tow ratings are stupid

[mccheez]

Every vehicle has a tow rating.

Every vehicle has a gross combined weight rating (GCWR).

Every vehicle has an actual curb weight.

They say that the maximum you can tow is the tow rating.

They say the maximum you can tow is your GCWR minus you actual curb weight (and then minus the weight of passengers and luggage).

In most vehicles I have researched, GCWR minus the curb weight (even before adding passengers and luggage) is lower than the towing capacity.

So then what good is a tow capacity rating that exceeds GCWR minus curb weight?

I think the folks that come up with these separate ratings need to have a conference call with each other and get on the same page.

[wavery]

Every vehicle has a tow rating.


They say the maximum you can tow is your GCWR minus you actual curb weight (and then minus the weight of passengers and luggage).

I don't believe that is correct.

The maximum trailer tongue weight is your GCWR minus your actual curb weight (and then minus the weight of passengers and luggage).

I believe that you can still pull up to your maximum trailer weight as long as your GCVW (including tongue weight) has not been exceeded.

The weight that you pull only effects the capacity of the vehicles power (and equipment) to pull it and brakes to stop it. It is, however, required that your trailer have brakes if the trailer exceeds the legal weight limit for the state that it is operating in. However, if this is not correct, someone will chime in shortly here.

I don't usually participate in these trailer weight discussions because I am a gross violator .

[mccheez]

"The GCWR (Gross Combined Weight Rating) is the maximum weight of the towing vehicle and the loaded trailer - including cargo and passengers."

http://www.airstream.com/airstream/product_line/customer_service/docs/gvwr.pdf#search='gross%20combined%20weight%20rating'

Says same thing in every owners' manual I've checked while shopping for a new tow vehicle the past week.

[AustinBoston]

Every vehicle has a tow rating.

Every vehicle has a gross combined weight rating (GCWR).

Every vehicle has an actual curb weight.

They say that the maximum you can tow is the tow rating.

They say the maximum you can tow is your GCWR minus you actual curb weight (and then minus the weight of passengers and luggage).

In most vehicles I have researched, GCWR minus the curb weight (even before adding passengers and luggage) is lower than the towing capacity.

So then what good is a tow capacity rating that exceeds GCWR minus curb weight?

I think the folks that come up with these separate ratings need to have a conference call with each other and get on the same page.

I will admit that it is confusing.  What the manufacturer is saying is that even if you reduce the weight of the tow vehicle (by pulling out seats, upholstry, etc.) you still can't exceed the tow rating.  If you leave the tow vehicle as is, you won't exceed the tow rating if you don't exceed the GCVWR/GCWR.

Many vehicles used as tow vehciles are available with no body or only a partial body for use by other manufacturers.  Some small enterprises may buy a finished vehcile and try to do the same thing.  The truck manufacturer is trying to put a cap on whatever stupid thing they may try to do.

Austin

[wavery]

Please read my last post. I used your quote:

"They say the maximum you can tow is your GCWR minus you actual curb weight (and then minus the weight of passengers and luggage). "

I do not believe that is correct. I think that what you may be mis-understanding is that your GCWR is your GVWR + your maximum trailer towing capacity. I'm not sure where you got the definition that you posted (in that quote). Maybe you could post a link to that.

If you look at the link that you provided, you will see a warning about trailer brakes. That is what I was referring to in my previous post.

[Kelly]

I do not believe that is correct. I think that what you may be mis-understanding is that your GCWR is your GVWR + your maximum trailer towing capacity. I'm not sure where you got the definition that you posted (in that quote). Maybe you could post a link to that.

so ... in other words (cuz sometimes I NEED other words) ~ IF

A is the total weight of the TV (GVRW)
and
B is the total weight of the trailer  
and
C is the total allowable weight of the rig (GCWR or GCVWR)

Then A + B must not exceed C.

Right? [/color]

[mccheez]

Please read my last post. I used your quote:

"They say the maximum you can tow is your GCWR minus you actual curb weight (and then minus the weight of passengers and luggage). "

I do not believe that is correct. I think that what you may be mis-understanding is that your GCWR is your GVWR + your maximum trailer towing capacity. I'm not sure where you got the definition that you posted (in that quote). Maybe you could post a link to that.

If you look at the link that you provided, you will see a warning about trailer brakes. That is what I was referring to in my previous post.

I did provide the link.  You just need to copy and paste.  Trust me - I am reading the definition correctly.  I've spent quite amount of time on the issue, researching tow capacities and GCWRs for Explorers, Durangos and TrailBlazers over the past couple of weeks.  I've read the same definition in each owners manual, including my Ford Escape's and my father's Toyota truck.  Even my nissan sentra had it in there.  Every one defines GCWR as I posted and per the link I provided.  When you get home today, check your owner's manual.  It will contain the same definition I provided.

[mccheez]

so ... in other words (cuz sometimes I NEED other words) ~ IF

A is the total weight of the TV (GVRW)
and
B is the total weight of the trailer  
and
C is the total allowable weight of the rig (GCWR or GCVWR)

Then A + B must not exceed C.

Right? [/color]

Kinda, except GVWR is not the vehicle's weight - it's the maximum weight the vehicle is permitted to weigh when fully loaded.  Curb weight + occupancy (including fuel, etc) is the vehicle's weight, best determined by going to the closest Flying J and paying $7.50 to use their truck scale (something I did a few weeks ago).  That weight needs to be less than GVWR.  Also, the weight that the Flying J tells you your car, loaded for a camping trip, weighs, plus the loaded weight of your trailer, is not to exceed your vehicle's GCWR.

[mccheez]

"The alternate method for determining allowable trailer weight requires that you know the loaded weight of the tow vehicle and the loaded weight of the trailer (something we don't know when we are on the dealer's lot). The sum of these loaded weights must not exceed the tow vehicles GCWR. "

http://www.rversonline.org/ArtWtandBal.html

[mccheez]

http://www.trucktires.com/us_eng/library/downloadables/RV_bro/RV%20Brochure.pdf#search='gcwr%20definition%20towing'

[wavery]

I did provide the link.  You just need to copy and paste.  Trust me - I am reading the definition correctly.  I've spent quite amount of time on the issue, researching tow capacities and GCWRs for Explorers, Durangos and TrailBlazers over the past couple of weeks.  I've read the same definition in each owners manual, including my Ford Escape's and my father's Toyota truck.  Even my nissan sentra had it in there.  Every one defines GCWR as I posted and per the link I provided.  When you get home today, check your owner's manual.  It will contain the same definition I provided.

I don't mean to belabor the point here but I could not find your formula "the maximum you can tow is your GCWR minus your actual curb weight (and then minus the weight of passengers and luggage".

The link that you supplied:
http://www.airstream.com/airstream/product_line/customer_service/docs/gvwr.pdf#search='gross%20combined%20weight%20rating'
States:
"The GCWR (Gross Combined Weight Rating) is the maximum weight of the towing vehicle and the loaded trailer - including cargo and passengers."

In the RH column it states:
"GROSS COMBINED WEIGHT RATING) is the maximum weight of the towing vehicle and the loaded trailer.

Am I missing something here?  :confused:

[dthurk]

Kinda, except GVWR is not the vehicle's weight.  Curb weight + occupancy (including fuel, etc) is the vehicle's weight, best determined by going to the closest Flying J and paying $7.50 to use their truck scale (something I did a few weeks ago).

As an alternative to paying Flying J, go to your local landfill transfer station (if you have one nearby) and get your weighting done there.  Ours will do it for free.  They allowed me to wiegh the entire rig, giving me GCW, then they let me drop the camper and weigh the Jeep alone.  That gave me the GVW for the Jeep, minus the weight of DW.  They even gave me a computer printout of the weight difference, giving me the GVW of the camper.  We did this just before we left on a trip, giving us good weights to work with.  We were well within ratings so that adding DW back into the rig would pose no problems for us.   :p

[wavery]

In the last link that you supplied:
http://www.trucktires.com/us_eng/library/downloadables/RV_bro/RV%20Brochure.pdf#search='gcwr%20definition%20towing'

"GCWR -minus GVWR represents the allowable weight for the towed vehicle."

I have seen that in ever definition that you have posted. I'm still confused as to where you get, "the maximum you can tow is your GCWR minus your actual curb weight (and then minus the weight of passengers and luggage". :confused:

[Kelly]

We were well within ratings so that adding DW back into the rig would pose no problems for us.   :p

LOL ~ lucky wife!  or is it lucky you?    

okay ~ if I plug my van numbers into this equation I still come out lower than the tow rating.

Hey Wayne ~ maybe I'm missing something too.   :confused:

[mccheez]

I don't mean to belabor the point here but I could not find your formula "the maximum you can tow is your GCWR minus your actual curb weight (and then minus the weight of passengers and luggage".

The link that you supplied:
http://www.airstream.com/airstream/product_line/customer_service/docs/gvwr.pdf#search='gross%20combined%20weight%20rating'
States:
"The GCWR (Gross Combined Weight Rating) is the maximum weight of the towing vehicle and the loaded trailer - including cargo and passengers."

In the RH column it states:
"GROSS COMBINED WEIGHT RATING) is the maximum weight of the towing vehicle and the loaded trailer.

Am I missing something here?  :confused:

I'm not sure what your question is.  GCWR is the maximum weight of your loaded tow vehicle and your loaded trailer.  So if your GCWR is 10,000 lbs, and your tow vehicle weighs 6,000 lbs with all passengers and luggage, then 10,000 - 6,000 = 4,000 lbs is the maximum trailer weight you can tow.  Anything that weighs more causes you to exceed the GCWR.

Curb weight + weight of passengers, luggage, fuel, etc = the weight of your vehicle.

I don't understand what you are not understanding.