Penalty for dumping grey water

[Dray]

Anyone know what the penalty is for dumping grey water on the ground?  What's up?  Do you get a fine?  A ticket?  Mean looks from other campers?  A chewing out by the camp host?  What?  

If one was to use something like a biodegradeable soap (is there such a thing?) would it be okay to dump this water onto the ground?  I mean really...what's so wrong with this water?

[AustinBoston]

Anyone know what the penalty is for dumping grey water on the ground?  What's up?  Do you get a fine?  A ticket?  Mean looks from other campers?  A chewing out by the camp host?  What?  

If one was to use something like a biodegradeable soap (is there such a thing?) would it be okay to dump this water onto the ground?  I mean really...what's so wrong with this water?

This is highly dependent on the state.  Last time we were in Maine, there were quite a few notices that the fine for dumping any waste water (grey or black) was $5,000.  That's the worst I've seen.

I've heard of other places where officials look the other way entirely, or will even instruct you where (on the ground) to dump it.

Where are you asking about?

Austin

[LimeJeeeep]

good question

[Dray]

This is highly dependent on the state.  Last time we were in Maine, there were quite a few notices that the fine for dumping any waste water (grey or black) was $5,000.  That's the worst I've seen.

I've heard of other places where officials look the other way entirely, or will even instruct you where (on the ground) to dump it.

Where are you asking about?

Austin

I'm just generally asking.  But was wondering about California mostly.  I was shocked to read that you've actually seen signs saying $5k fine!  WOW!  

Has anyone ever heard of or gotten fined themselves?

[HouseInABox]

No, because I would never put grey or black waste out on the ground.  As campers we should always leave the campsite better then we found it and leave nature intact.  

There is biodegradable soap for backpackers and I suppose dry campers; however that being said any campground (sp or otherwise) that allows tenters in our experiences always have a place for  campers to wash dishes, etc.  

If you don't have a full hookup site then thats what the dump station is for.

[LimeJeeeep]

at cloudland canyon SP,ga the sink by the washing machine specifically said NO DISHWASHING...they did also have gray water drains scattered around the park...but they had no signs specifically prohibiting you

[flyfisherman]

No, because I would never put grey or black waste out on the ground.  As campers we should always leave the campsite better then we found it and leave nature intact.  

There is biodegradable soap for backpackers and I suppose dry campers; however that being said any campground (sp or otherwise) that allows tenters in our experiences always have a place for  campers to wash dishes, etc.  

If you don't have a full hookup site then thats what the dump station is for.

Whereas I applaud your admirable dedication to camping and the leaving the campsite better than you found it (if only everyone did that!), please let me respectfully point out there is a vast difference between gray water (from washing dishes) to black water (from what you've done your personal business in!) and leaving beside the campsite! (LOL)

This "biodegradable soap" issue is really a misnomer. All soap (i.e., all REAL soap), is already biodegradable.  It's the synthetic soap (i.e., detergents, or more correctly ... surfactants), where the biodegradable handle belongs. It was in detergents where they spiked them with additives (like phosphates) to make them clean better, but were bad about breaking down after and you had rivers and streams all foaming all over the place until Governments stepped in. To this end, for dish washing (and even taking a bath in the river!) I use what I think is the best soap out there ... Ivory bar soap, made by good ole Procter & Gamble, and still selling at a very reasonable price.



Fly

[dcampbell1969]

But hopefully if there are gray water disposal stations in the CG, then I'm sure all of our PUT members would certainly dump there instead of the ground!

[sewserious]

Most dishwashing liquids and even laundry detergents now have biodegradable surfacents as does most any kind of "soap".  Just read the labels.

[battleb]

Being a semi "newbie", I guess I dont understand the problem with grey water disposal. After reading several posts on the site and viewing pictures of how others have done it, I purchased a 6.5 gal container from K mart and when it was almost filled dumped it in the campground toilet.  I have only camped at State Park and big RV campgrounds and I have not not looked for grey water dump places and maby someone mite shed some lite on those for this humble newbie. I would guess that for dry camping one would just dig a hole or dump in a semi appropriate place.

[chasd60]

It seems that most of the campgrounds I have been to have a rule for discharging grey water directly from a camper.
 
They don't post the same rule about dumping a dishwashing tote like a tenter uses.
 
Not sure if it means the same thing but the signs I have seen are directly related to RV's.
May be a fine line between the two?

[Old Goat]

Whereas I applaud your admirable dedication to camping and the leaving the campsite better than you found it (if only everyone did that!), please let me respectfully point out there is a vast difference between gray water (from washing dishes) to black water (from what you've done your personal business in!) and leaving beside the campsite! (LOL)

This "biodegradable soap" issue is really a misnomer. All soap (i.e., all REAL soap), is already biodegradable.  It's the synthetic soap (i.e., detergents, or more correctly ... surfactants), where the biodegradable handle belongs. It was in detergents where they spiked them with additives (like phosphates) to make them clean better, but were bad about breaking down after and you had rivers and streams all foaming all over the place until Governments stepped in. To this end, for dish washing (and even taking a bath in the river!) I use what I think is the best soap out there ... Ivory bar soap, made by good ole Procter & Gamble, and still selling at a very reasonable price.



Fly

Dale, You are so right about Ivory soap. Dad always shaved using a lather made with Ivory soap and taught me to shave with it too. I still shave with it sixty years later and after trying many other shaving creams and soaps over the years would'nt use anything else.
We used to camp and fish on Marco Island and in Florida's Ten Thousand Islands back in the fourties and fifties. In those days there was no fresh water to be had any where so we had to carry water from home for cooking and drinking. We took salt water baths using Kirks Castile soap which lathers very nicely in salt water. We used it for shaving too.The very few people who lived on Marco depended on rain water stored in cisterns and  water from a shallow brackish {slightly salty]  hand pumped well which did not taste or look very good. There was no electricity on Marco in those days, only a few small DC generators, usually home made.

Why is it that you can use your camper's outside shower all day long at a campground and nothing is said about all the grey water going on the ground that you produce??

OG

[AustinBoston]

It seems that most of the campgrounds I have been to have a rule for discharging grey water directly from a camper.
 
They don't post the same rule about dumping a dishwashing tote like a tenter uses.
 
Not sure if it means the same thing but the signs I have seen are directly related to RV's.
May be a fine line between the two?

I think the assumption is that you may wash yourself (i.e. your hands) hands in a camper sink.  Technically speaking, this makes it black water.

Of course, not every tenter uses gloves when washing dishes in a dishpan...in fact I don't know any...but we'll ignore that detail.

To me, the attraction of vermin (or even bears) by bits of food in dishpan water is enough reason to avoid dumping it on the ground.

Austin

[flyfisherman]

Most dishwashing liquids and even laundry detergents now have biodegradable surfacents as does most any kind of "soap".  Just read the labels.

Reading labels, I'm sorry to say, can sometimes be misleading. For example, a "detergent" is a surfactant. The term detergent is a buzz word that was coined to sell surfactants. Goes back to the early days of television and the "soap operas" of that era ... the soap/surfactant industry was the sponsor for most of them and detergent sounded so much better than using surfactant (now they moving away from the term detergent and coming up with "dish washing liquid"). It is in surfactants (detergents, if you like) that additives like chelating and wetting agents,  phosphates, soda ash and such,  are so easily and economically blended in.  Soap, real soap, on the other hand, does not lend itself to such formulations, it's simply cost prohibitive to try and make the stuff blend-in. Besides, soap cost more to make in the first place.

Next time your in an outdoor provision or sporting goods store, and see some bars of soap, with a fancy label saying they are "biodegradable" and have a hefty price tag on them to boot, just remember that real soap is biodegrable to begin with and instead of giving them $3.00 a bar, you can hot foot it down to the supermarket and buy three bars of Ivory for less than a buck (last time I checked, anyway). These outfits, calling their soap biodegradable when it already is/was, is just another ploy to get an outrageous price for their stuff.

That great marine biolgist and friend of the environment, Rachel Carsons, whose book came out in 1962 (Silent Spring), was the beginning of a huge shake-up in the chemical industry and some real eye opening practices that were being carried out, and this it where the term "biodegradable" came into vogue; and  now sometimes mis-used to promote a product.



Fly

[LimeJeeeep]

funny thing i couldn,t tell weather where everyone else before me has been dumping there grey water.in fact oddly enough the trees and greenery around my campsite looked good considering the drout they are experiencing....on the other hand a campsite without greenery may stink after a while with grey water being dumped.......in my world i guess ,i should determine or even more so let the land around me tell me if i can put out grey water.,....never the less maybe also a fine will tell me where and how to treat grey water....oh wait a PAC may tell my legislature how to treat grey water ...since i,m too stupid to know ....gotta love cradle to grave ...oh well its off to walmart TOO BUY A BUCKET TO PUT ON MY HEAD....oopps i,m sorry been watching too much fox news