Leveling your Pop-Up camper

[zamboni]

IIRC, Rockwood/Flagstaff says to put the stabs down before popping up.

Actually, logic says it is probably simpler than that.  In practice, you don't want to extend the stabilizers until the camper is at it's "max dispersed weight".  That means... extending the bunks and slide-outs.  That way, you know that your stabilizers are holding the "proper" weight.

Think of it this exaggerated way:
1) Level your rig
2) Stabilize it
3) Extend slide-out -- which transfers a chunk of weigh from the "center of gravity" to "all-in on the slide-out side"
4) You don't notice, because it was "level" when you stabilized... then you never un-stabilized to check the new pressure on the stabilizers.


If you have a slide... then, when you side-by-side level the camper, factor in a tiny "fudge factor".  Anticipate (with previous EXPERIENCE) the extra swing-weight the slide applies to that side.  Level the rig that way.

IDEALLY:  When you are popped up and slid out, your rig is level.  Then, you crank down the STABILIZERS.  Note, these are not called "LIFTERS"  Their only goal is to counteract the peoples & animals from walking around...

[zamboni]

Actually, logic says it is probably simpler than that.  In practice, you don't want to extend the stabilizers until the camper is at it's "max dispersed weight".  That means... extending the bunks and slide-outs.  That way, you know that your stabilizers are holding the "proper" weight.

Think of it this exaggerated way:
1) Mostly level your rig (anticipate the slide!)
2) Extend slide-out -- which transfers a chunk of weigh from the "center of gravity" to "all-in on the slide-out side"
3) Ensure the slideout still keeps the rig level.
4) Stabilize it
5) You don't notice, because it was "level" when you stabilized... then you never un-stabilized to check the new pressure on the stabilizers.


If you have a slide... then, when you side-by-side level the camper, factor in a tiny "fudge factor".  Anticipate (with previous EXPERIENCE) the extra swing-weight the slide applies to that side.  Level the rig that way.

IDEALLY:  When you are popped up and slid out, your rig is level.  Then, you crank down the STABILIZERS.  Note, these are not called "LIFTERS"  Their only goal is to counteract the peoples & animals from walking around...

[Old Goat]

QUESTION; If popup frames are as weak and flimsy like some people around here believe, and can be easily warped or bent by over cranking the stabilizers, then why do we not see a lot of lopsided popups around ? Where are all the complaints about weak and bent frames? Where are all the threads on how to replace or straighten a warped or bent frame? I have owned four popups over the years and have always given the stabilizers on all of them an extra half or full crank for more stability with no problems. If the door had a bind I would slightly lower the stabs on the door side to correct it. Never had a warped or bent frame and never had to replace a damaged stabilizer. I have seen many campers over crank stabilizers to level their popups and not have a problem with bent frames. After leveling I have raised the top with the stabilizers up and down and have never noticed any difference or had had any binding problems..

Just a tiny pinch of common sense tells me that hitting a large pothole and towing on a rough and bumpy road will place more severe up and down and twisting forces on a popup's frame than any human could ever do by overcranking a stabilizer. In over 70,000 miles of towing popups, I recall  seeing only two lopsided popups going down the road. Both had flat tires and one of them was mine.......

[AustinBoston]

Here's somethnig interesting I found in the manual. On page 19 the manual says to use the door side rear stabilizer to adjust the door fit by slightly raising or lowering the jack.

Planned frame warping.  I love it.

Austin

[AustinBoston]

QUESTION; If popup frames are as weak and flimsy like some people around here believe, and can be easily warped or bent by over cranking the stabilizers, then why do we not see a lot of lopsided popups around ? Where are all the complaints about weak and bent frames? Where are all the threads on how to replace or straighten a warped or bent frame?

Because it doesn't show up as a bent frame.  It shows up as "hard to crank up" because the lift mechanism has bound up because the frame has warped.  We get plenty of those.  We've also had a number of threads over the years about "I can't get the door in place."

A pop-up with a frame bent so bad that it shows as a bent frame becomes a utility trailer.

Austin

[Dee4j]

Wavery,

Putting the stabilizers down before raising the roof IS recommended by some manufacturers.  People need to read their owner's manuals to find out if it applies to them or not. (For the record, Coleman/Fleetwood says DO NOT put the stabilizers down first.)

Also, most manuals say to level front to back then side to side, checking front to back level again.

Here is the correct order per my manual (Coieman/Fleetwood)

Level front to back
Level side to side
Recheck front to back level
Raise roof.
Set stabilizers.

These last two MAY be reversed depending on the manufacturer.  Again, there is NO substitute for reading the owner's manual.

hmmmm..help me with this..I've always done side to side first, until I bought a BAL leveler. I would park look at the situation and then drive on one of those lego block things first. then I would level the front to back.  Isn't the front to back adjusted by raising and lowering the tongue which requires unhitching? or do I have the terms mixed up?


I did however never cranked my roof up with the stabilizers down...something I learned from the GURU's here on PUT :sombraro:

[austinado16]

To me it just made sense to do the side-to-side leveling first since the axle isn't dead center in the middle.  So I do that with the BAL leveler, then do the front-to-rear, and then recheck my side-to-side.  I don't see what's wrong with putting the stabilzers down prior to lifting the roof.  As stated by so many here, they are just that, stabilizers, and they're not loading the frame such that any binding would occur.  Plus, with all the slop in the lifting arms and the movement in the roof (as you can see by just pushing on the roof once it's up), it's not like we're talking about precision instruments here.

Just my rookie 2 cents worth.

[Old Goat]

The only utility trailers made from popups that I have seen were made from old worn and rotted out ones that were to far gone to restore. If a frame is bent so badly that it cannot be used under a popup, then it will not be worth a hoot as a utility trailer either. Also, I have never seen a lift system that was binding because of a warped or bent frame, not to say that this does'nt happen. Lack of maintenance and lubrication are the main causes of binding.. Door binding can be caused by the door getting out of square and not letting it fit into the opening properly. I have had this binding problem on our 01 Niagara now and then and I corrected it by tapping the bottomm edge of the door with a rubber mallet. I have shown others at campgrounds how to do this too. Worn and loose hinges are also another cause.....

[wavery]

To me it just made sense to do the side-to-side leveling first since the axle isn't dead center in the middle.  So I do that with the BAL leveler, then do the front-to-rear, and then recheck my side-to-side.  I don't see what's wrong with putting the stabilzers down prior to lifting the roof.  As stated by so many here, they are just that, stabilizers, and they're not loading the frame such that any binding would occur.  Plus, with all the slop in the lifting arms and the movement in the roof (as you can see by just pushing on the roof once it's up), it's not like we're talking about precision instruments here.

Just my rookie 2 cents worth.

austinado16
You're right. I think that some manufacturers recommend raising the roof prior to lowering stabilizers to avoid someone over-loading 1 stabilizer more than the others, thus creating a potential binding of the lifts while they are being raised.

Other manufacturers may allow for people to follow the directions on merely lowering the stabilizers, thus stabilizing the platform in a straight, level position. This may be particularly helpful if the wind is blowing.

I think that I may start lowering my stabilizers (after leveling) before I raise my roof, as it actually makes more sense then what my Coleman manual instructs.
-------------------------------------------------
Old goat

When you are towing, the roof is fastened down and completing a total box shaped structure. The box becomes part of the the reinforcement for the frame. As soon as you lift the roof, you lose that strength on the door side of the camper.

Just think of a single sheet of 4'x8' plywood. By itself, it is very flimsy and flexes quite easily. When you put 4 sides and a roof on that sheet of plywood, it becomes quite solid. That is what you have with a PU trailer with the roof fastened to the box.

We're not talking about frames that totally buckle here. We are talking about frames that can achieve an "Out of alignment" condition that may cause the door not to fit and/or the lifts to bind because they are no longer, all 4, going up in alignment. That situation could cause increased stress in lifting and/or (eventually) broken lifting cables and/or rollers.

[stewartlittle]

wavery,not all campers have the crank kind on them.

Mine has a lever you push and the stablizer slides down.How would you do that,level the pup and slide them till they hit the ground?

This is how I've always done,the 4 or 5 times we've went camping in it.

I get side-side level first,then jack the tounge up till fronts a tad low.Then put rear stablizes down and jack it up a tad high and put the front down.Then I let jack it down till the front stablizers are snug but the axle and tounge jack are holding most of the weight.
Then I pop it up,not anymore.I do that first.After I unhook of course.

If thats the wrong way to do it,please let me know and share the correct way.

[A2SuperCrew]

Great thread!  Now I have a Rookie question:

Where on the trailer do you check with your level?  I've been checking side-to-side by placing my level on the back bumper.  I check front-to-back by placing my level on the tongue near the propane tanks.

If I double-check by placing the level on the floor in the middle of the PUP, it doesn't always seem to agree.  This puzzles me. :confused:

My door has never fit perfectly.  There has always been a small gap on one side at the top of the hard wall.  The wingnut on the door doesn't make good contact on that side.  My dealer said popups are just like that.  After reading this thread, I'm getting concerned my frame may have been bent from the day I bought it!  How does one go about correcting this?

[wavery]

wavery,not all campers have the crank kind on them.

Mine has a lever you push and the stablizer slides down.How would you do that,level the pup and slide them till they hit the ground?

This is how I've always done,the 4 or 5 times we've went camping in it.

I get side-side level first,then jack the tounge up till fronts a tad low.Then put rear stablizes down and jack it up a tad high and put the front down.Then I let jack it down till the front stablizers are snug but the axle and tounge jack are holding most of the weight.
Then I pop it up,not anymore.I do that first.After I unhook of course.

If thats the wrong way to do it,please let me know and share the correct way.

It's best to totally level the PU (some prefer to leave it slightly off-level for drainage), then drop your stabilizers. No further adjustment should be made with the tongue jack, after the stabilizers are down.

I have the same type stabilizers that you do (I believe). They have holes in them, through which you put a tool in to put a firm lift on the stabilizer (just enough to overcome the surface softness).

[wavery]

Great thread!  Now I have a Rookie question:

Where on the trailer do you check with your level?  I've been checking side-to-side by placing my level on the back bumper.  I check front-to-back by placing my level on the tongue near the propane tanks.

If I double-check by placing the level on the floor in the middle of the PUP, it doesn't always seem to agree.  This puzzles me. :confused:

My door has never fit perfectly.  There has always been a small gap on one side at the top of the hard wall.  The wingnut on the door doesn't make good contact on that side.  My dealer said popups are just like that.  After reading this thread, I'm getting concerned my frame may have been bent from the day I bought it!  How does one go about correcting this?

Your most accurate level reading can be made on the floor of the camper. Some people actually use the bottom of the fridge because they believe the fridge is the most critical part to be leveled. However, most modern fridges are less vulnerable to "Off-level" conditions. Using the floor of the camper should be quite adequate.

The floor is what the roof lifts are squared to, during construction.

[AustinBoston]

Great thread!  Now I have a Rookie question:

Where on the trailer do you check with your level?  I've been checking side-to-side by placing my level on the back bumper.  I check front-to-back by placing my level on the tongue near the propane tanks.

If I double-check by placing the level on the floor in the middle of the PUP, it doesn't always seem to agree.  This puzzles me. :confused:

No pop-up is perfect.  If you don't notice a problem (i.e. if you can't feel it being out-of-level when walking or when laying in bed), then it's level enough.  People get concerned about the fridge being level, but on a typical pop-up, the fridge only needs the pop-up level to within 3-4 inches side-to-side, and 7-11 inches (depending on length of pop-up) front-to-back.  I know if I were off by 3 inches when I leveled, PJay would make me level again (no comments please).

Anywhere on the frame, a good bullseye level will get you within 1/2-3/4 inch every time.  You do not need to be that accurate.

I've actually outdone myself on leveling.  Without trying, I have developed a skill for just looking and knowing how much I'll need to level side-to-side.  I will check with a bullseye level after deciding, but I and the level have not disagreed in many years.

Austin

[fallsrider]

Here's something interesting I found in the manual. On page 19 the manual says to use the door side rear stabilizer to adjust the door fit by slightly raising or lowering the jack.

I do the same thing on my Jayco, but very carefully. If I just lower my stabs to the point of slightly firm pressure, after raising the roof, my door binds slightly. If I raise my door side rear stab one more click, it frees up the door and it works great.

You have to be a little more careful, I guess with the Atwoods, because there is no adjustment between the clicks. One click is probably close to 1/4" lift, if not more. I think the screw-type stabs are pretty much infinitely adjustable.