Leveling your Pop-Up camper

[wavery]

I think that this subject comes up often enough that it may be worthwhile to have an entire thread devoted to the discussion.

I think that some of us have been very dogmatic about "NEVER" using the stabilizers as part of the leveling process (myself included) and others tend to avoid the subject. However, I think that enough newbies question this topic enough to warrant some discussion.

The most important part of this theory is sometimes missed IMO. It is important to raise your roof before putting your stabilizers down to avoid any binding in the roof lifts. It is also important to have the trailer as level as possible before you attempt to raise the roof, also to avoid any binding. Therefore, your camper should be level before even thinking about your stabilizers.

The proper way to level your PU is, first you level side to side by lifting the low side tire by pulling the trailer onto blocks or using a Bal Leveler:
http://www.norcoind.com/bal/products/consumer/leveling_products/tireleveler.htm Then you level front to back with the tongue jack.

Really the main issue behind not using the stabilizers to level the trailer is to not bind the roof supports while raising the roof. The secondary issue is the frame of the trailer and the weight that the stabilizers can support.

The manufacturers design PUs as light as they possibly can because that is what the market demands. Therefore, the stabilizers are designed only strong enough to handle the load of stabilizing and not lifting the camper. If you lift the camper in one corner and put (say) a 300# load on it, a person walking to that portion of the camper could add enough additional weight to damage the stabilizer.

The other issue is the frame. Particularly vulnerable is the side of the camper with the door opening. The other side of the camper has the additional support of the box walls of the camper. The side with the door has only the strength of the light frame.

The real problem comes in when someone decides that if they just give the stabilizer another crank or two and the stabilizers on the other side are already down. This is a recipe for a bent frame. If the stabilizers on the opposite side of the camper are down and you give the opposing stabilizers a crank or two, something may give because you are actually lifting the entire weight of the camper with one stabilizer. In some cases, this can be thousands of pounds on a stabilizer designed to support 500#.

If you absolutely feel compelled to give that stabilizer another crank, be sure to raise the apposing stabilizers. In doing so, you will achieve your objective with much less force and much less strain on your frame. 50# of added burden, doing it this way will be the same as 1000# of added burden if you lift against the apposing stabilizers.

The fact is, a small amount off level would normally not be noticed anyway other than possible binding of the lifting mechanism, while lifting the roof.

[sewserious]

Wavery,

Putting the stabilizers down before raising the roof IS recommended by some manufacturers.  People need to read their owner's manuals to find out if it applies to them or not. (For the record, Coleman/Fleetwood says DO NOT put the stabilizers down first.)

Also, most manuals say to level front to back then side to side, checking front to back level again.

Here is the correct order per my manual (Coieman/Fleetwood)

Level front to back
Level side to side
Recheck front to back level
Raise roof.
Set stabilizers.

These last two MAY be reversed depending on the manufacturer.  Again, there is NO substitute for reading the owner's manual.

[wavery]

Wavery,

Putting the stabilizers down before raising the roof IS recommended by some manufacturers.  People need to read their owner's manuals to find out if it applies to them or not. (For the record, Coleman/Fleetwood says DO NOT put the stabilizers down first.)

Also, most manuals say to level front to back then side to side, checking front to back level again.

If that's what the manual says, I'd do it that way. As long as the camper is level without using the stabilizers to level it, I see little difference myself. The important part is not to use the stabilizers to do the leveling. If you do, the lifts could be pointing anyway but straight up. A recipe for binding the lifts. I think that's why Fleetwood (and others) say, "Don't do it".

I find it hard to believe that any manual would say, "level front to back then side to side, checking front to back level again". I'm not saying you're wrong. It just doesn't make any sense to me. If you level front to rear first with your tongue jack, how do you pull up onto blocks without damaging your tongue jack??? :confused:

My 2002 Coleman manual merely says, "If a level campsite cannot be obtained, use of leveling blocks under the tires is recommended to level the trailer from side-to-side before lowering stabilizers". Then, it goes on to describe the use of the tongue jack with a note: "Do not use the stabilizers to adjust the level of the trailer. Damage to the stabilizers could occur".

[Dray]

My 6 yr old son likes to help setup.  I usually let him do the stabilizers.  Now I'm getting nervous.  I better supervise that task.

[zamboni]

My 6 yr old son likes to help setup.  I usually let him do the stabilizers.

Actually, that may be a smart way to do it -- he probably is nowhere near as strong as you, so he won't crank them too tight!  Think of him as a natural "torque-wrench" to not over-tighten the stabilizers

[wavery]

My 6 yr old son likes to help setup.  I usually let him do the stabilizers.  Now I'm getting nervous.  I better supervise that task.

He's probably the best suited for the task (at least for another year or two :p ). I don't think that he will be lifting the camper with the stabilizers for a while. :sombraro:

[wavery]

Actually, that may be a smart way to do it -- he probably is nowhere near as strong as you, so he won't crank them too tight!  Think of him as a natural "torque-wrench" to not over-tighten the stabilizers

hehehe!! great minds think alike. :sombraro: You're just more creative and eloquent about it.

[AustinBoston]

Level front to back
Level side to side

Your manual does not say that.  Better read it again.

Austin

[AustinBoston]

The real problem comes in when someone decides that if they just give the stabilizer another crank or two and the stabilizers on the other side are already down. This is a recipe for a bent frame. If the stabilizers on the opposite side of the camper are down and you give the opposing stabilizers a crank or two, something may give because you are actually lifting the entire weight of the camper with one stabilizer. In some cases, this can be thousands of pounds on a stabilizer designed to support 500#.

While I agree with your intent, the only way that you would get "thousands of pounds" from one more crank is if that crank could lift a wheel entirely off the ground.  Until the wheels leave the ground, they hold some weight.  As the pop-up risies, they rapidly hold less and less.  Giving it "one more crank" adds a larger amount of weight, so that (air numbers here) if the first extra crank added 100 lbs, the second would add 150 lbs (250 total), the third add 225 lbs (475 total), etc.

BTW, the rear bunk end acts as a lever.  150-200% of the weight on the bunk ends goes on the stabilizers.  So when a big guy like me goes to bed, I can put 500 lbs (250 lbs each) on the rear stabilizers.  If they are already holding 400 lbs, guess what happens.  :eyecrazy: The front bunk should not have this issue because of the tongue jack.

Austin

[wavery]

While I agree with your intent, the only way that you would get "thousands of pounds" from one more crank is if that crank could lift a wheel entirely off the ground.  Until the wheels leave the ground, they hold some weight.  As the pop-up risies, they rapidly hold less and less.  Giving it "one more crank" adds a larger amount of weight, so that (air numbers here) if the first extra crank added 100 lbs, the second would add 150 lbs (250 total), the third add 225 lbs (475 total), etc.



Austin

AB,

Read what I said again. I think that you may have mis-understood. I said, "The real problem comes in when someone decides that if they just give the stabilizer another crank or two and the stabilizers on the other side are already down."

If the opposing stabilizers are down, The weight on the axle is totally relieved almost immediately when over jacking. ALL of the camper weight (less part of the axle) is now being supported by the jacks as you continue applying force on the other jacks. It only takes a few clicks. Even then, you are mostly overcoming the flex of the frame. That is where the real issue begins. Over-flexing the frame, especially on the door side, could lead to the frame buckling.

[sewserious]

Okay, you're right, it doesn't since I looked again.  My bad.  My point still stands, read your manual, which I should have done instead of going by memory.  Different manufacturers recommend different things.  

But Leveling first
Raise top
Stabilizers down

OR

Level first
Stabilizers down
Raise top

is the way it goes depending on the camper.  IIRC, Rockwood/Flagstaff says to put the stabs down before popping up.

[AustinBoston]

AB,

Read what I said again. I think that you may have mis-understood. I said, "The real problem comes in when someone decides that if they just give the stabilizer another crank or two and the stabilizers on the other side are already down."

If the opposing stabilizers are down, The weight on the axle is totally relieved almost immediately when over jacking. ALL of the camper weight (less part of the axle) is now being supported by the jacks as you continue applying force on the other jacks. It only takes a few clicks. Even then, you are mostly overcoming the flex of the frame. That is where the real issue begins. Over-flexing the frame, especially on the door side, could lead to the frame buckling.

I understood you perfectly well.  It's the "another crank or two" part, combined with the fact that you forgot that the wheels are on springs, that I am objecting to.  Until the camper is lifted beyond the point of spring compression on the axles, the axles are holding part of the weight, and for the first inch to inch and a half, they are still holding nearly all of it.  For our camper, an inch of lift is about 4 revolutions of the crank, so "another crank or two" isn't going to be more than a half inch.  If they go another crank or two, they are pushing their luck...and another and they are asking for trouble.  It is certanly not all-or-nothing, and it is not linear (so there is a point where you are taking up only a small amount of weight per crank for a while, then picking the weight up quickly, then once the jacks are holding most of the weight it takes a lot more cranking to get all of it...if you get that far).  You have to lift the whole camper quite a bit before the point is reached where the jacks have all of the camper's weight.

BTW, I used to think like you did on this, but a few times jacking up the trailer to service the bearings (and seeing how far I had to go before the springs were not under compression) clarified things for me.

Note to the reading impaired: DO NOT DO WHAT IS WRITTEN BELOW UNLESS YOU READ IT IN YOUR MANUAL.

Years ago, there was a small pop-up owner (I think he owned one of the original Colemans, pre-Fleetwood), where the owner quoted the manual that said basically to fix a flat, lower the nose jack, put the rear stabilizers down, and raise the tongue jack...don't try that with today's trailers.

Austin

[campdaddy]

Man! You guys got me to thinking. I've always done it LSR (Level - Stabilize - Raise). Well I just checked the manual on my '04 Rockwood and it's quite confusing. On page 16 it says to park the camper on a level site (doesn't mention what to do if it isn't level); then to chock the wheels, lower the stabilizers, raise the roof, pull bunk ends etc. Then on page 17 it tells you how to level the camper. Front to rear only - doesn't say anything about side to side. If someone were to literally follow the steps -though they're not listed as steps- you would put everything up THEN level it -but only front to rear.  But it does have a warning not to use the stabilizers to level.  Anyway, the way I do it is level first, side to side while still connected to TV. Disconnect from TV and level front to rear using the tongue jack. Stabilizers down

[sacrawf]

Man! You guys got me to thinking. I've always done it LSR (Level - Stabilize - Raise). Well I just checked the manual on my '04 Rockwood and it's quite confusing. On page 16 it says to park the camper on a level site (doesn't mention what to do if it isn't level); then to chock the wheels, lower the stabilizers, raise the roof, pull bunk ends etc. Then on page 17 it tells you how to level the camper. Front to rear only - doesn't say anything about side to side. If someone were to literally follow the steps -though they're not listed as steps- you would put everything up THEN level it -but only front to rear.  But it does have a warning not to use the stabilizers to level.  Anyway, the way I do it is level first, side to side while still connected to TV. Disconnect from TV and level front to rear using the tongue jack. Stabilizers down

[wavery]

Man! You guys got me to thinking. I've always done it LSR (Level - Stabilize - Raise). Well I just checked the manual on my '04 Rockwood and it's quite confusing. On page 16 it says to park the camper on a level site (doesn't mention what to do if it isn't level); then to chock the wheels, lower the stabilizers, raise the roof, pull bunk ends etc. Then on page 17 it tells you how to level the camper. Front to rear only - doesn't say anything about side to side. If someone were to literally follow the steps -though they're not listed as steps- you would put everything up THEN level it -but only front to rear.  But it does have a warning not to use the stabilizers to level.  Anyway, the way I do it is level first, side to side while still connected to TV. Disconnect from TV and level front to rear using the tongue jack. Stabilizers down