Lightning!!

[offagain]

Bad storm came through with very bad lightning.Not really comfortable staying in bunkends with those kinds of conditions but it was pouring down rain and the kids were out cold.Do I wake everyone up and go to the van?Do I ride it out?We rode it out in the pup but had a terrible nights sleep.What have you done?I do night like lightning.

[JimS]

I grew up in the southeast and thunder and lighting to me is met with about as much concern as the sun rising in the morning.  It ain't the lightning I worry about, if its going to strike, the PU isn't much different from the car.  Both sit on rubber tires / wheels.  I worry about trees or limbs coming down and smashing into whatever I'm sleeping in.  I have spent most of my 50 years in tents in thunderstorm country and have never had a problem.  Just this last year have I moved to a PU.  If anything, I feel less vulnerable in the PU than in the tent.  As for the car, I don't see it as much of an advantage over the PU.  I have seen many cars crushed from falling limbs and trees.  And yes, cars do occasionally get hit by lightning, but not very often.
Basically, do what you feel SAFEST with in protecting your family.  That is what is most important, regardless of other's opinions.

[AustinBoston]

I grew up in the southeast and thunder and lighting to me is met with about as much concern as the sun rising in the morning.  It ain't the lightning I worry about, if its going to strike, the PU isn't much different from the car.  Both sit on rubber tires / wheels.

I hear this and hear this, but it is totally irrelevant.  Repeat after me:

The only way rubber tires will make any difference to lightning (car or pop-up) is if the rubber is at least a mile thick.[/B]

The lightning has just travelled between 20,000 and 60,000 feet; the few inches of air between your camper and the ground are irrelevant, whether or not there are rubber tires there.  Oh, and the pop-up's stabilizers are metal to ground, making it (only slightly) different from a car.

Austin

[JimS]

I hear this and hear this, but it is totally irrelevant.  Repeat after me:

The only way rubber tires will make any difference to lightning (car or pop-up) is if the rubber is at least a mile thick.[/B]

The lightning has just travelled between 20,000 and 60,000 feet; the few inches of air between your camper and the ground are irrelevant, whether or not there are rubber tires there.  Oh, and the pop-up's stabilizers are metal to ground, making it (only slightly) different from a car.

Austin

Read the entire post.  Lightning arresters, lightning rods, copperwire, insulators, what do they do?

[flyfisherman]

I've often pondered (since owning popups) how the Faraday Cage "theory", as applied to cars and buses, would do with a popup ...?

http://www.lightningsafety.com/nlsi_pls/vehicle_strike.html




Fly

[JimS]

I've often pondered (since owning popups) how the Faraday Cage "theory", as applied to cars and buses, would do with a popup ...?

http://www.lightningsafety.com/nlsi_pls/vehicle_strike.html




Fly

Good link, thanks!
Interesting question.  I would think that the metal lifting system and the stabilizer jacks would act as a grounding circuit and bleed off the strike, not unlike lightning rods and the ground wire do for houses.  Now, I'm going to be up all night thinking about this!
I just don't think a car is any safer than a PU in this matter.

[tlhdoc]

A PU is a tent on wheels.  We didn't stay in a tent when there is an electrical storm and we don't stay in the PU.  Going into a building with plumbing and wiring is the safest thing to do.  A car is our second choice.  Most people don't get a second chance when they get hit by lightning.

[wavery]

Good link, thanks!
Interesting question.  I would think that the metal lifting system and the stabilizer jacks would act as a grounding circuit and bleed off the strike, not unlike lightning rods and the ground wire do for houses.  Now, I'm going to be up all night thinking about this!
I just don't think a car is any safer than a PU in this matter.

The car is a much safer "Faraday Cage" than a PU. Many people have experienced lightening strikes in cars and have not been injured. I'm sure that there may be cases where people may have been injured or killed too. It's just that we see the videos of survivors.

I have never heard of a PU being hit by lightening and I would think that it would be much more rare than lightening strikes to humans or cars (which is extremely rare).

I wouldn't lose any sleep over it but I think that a lightening strike on a PU would only be slightly protected by the "Faraday Cage" theory in a minimal strike. There just isn't enough metal to offer a lot of "cage" protection. However, some of the current could be transfered from the lifts to the ground. I certainly wouldn't like to be inside if that were to happen. Again, the chances are slim to none.

[JimS]

The car is a much safer "Faraday Cage" than a PU. Many people have experienced lightening strikes in cars and have not been injured. I'm sure that there may be cases where people may have been injured or killed too. It's just that we see the videos of survivors.

I have never heard of a PU being hit by lightening and I would think that it would be much more rare than lightening strikes to humans or cars (which is extremely rare).

I wouldn't lose any sleep over it but I think that a lightening strike on a PU would only be slightly protected by the "Faraday Cage" theory in a minimal strike. There just isn't enough metal to offer a lot of "cage" protection. However, some of the current could be transfered from the lifts to the ground. I certainly wouldn't like to be inside if that were to happen. Again, the chances are slim to none.

I agree that the chances are very slim.  The thing is, all you need is one path from the strike to the ground.  This is how lightning rods work.  They conduct the strike to a thumb size wire then to the ground.  The trick is not beinig personally involved in the circuit.  Even in a car, if you are in contact with the steering wheel, gear shift, or other component, you can be part of the circuit.  I learned this the hard way about 7 years ago while standing under the eave of a building during a thunder bumper.  OUCH!
Hmmmm, lightning "rods" for PU's.......

[wavery]

I agree that the chances are very slim.  The thing is, all you need is one path from the strike to the ground.  This is how lightning rods work.  They conduct the strike to a thumb size wire then to the ground.  The trick is not beinig personally involved in the circuit.  Even in a car, if you are in contact with the steering wheel, gear shift, or other component, you can be part of the circuit.  I learned this the hard way about 7 years ago while standing under the eave of a building during a thunder bumper.  OUCH!
Hmmmm, lightning "rods" for PU's.......

Just don't think for one minute that your lifts would be effective "Lightening rods". They should be partially effective in accepting part of the load but most of the load may simply go right past them or melt them.

A lightening rod is buried between 3' and 6' in the ground. That makes an effective path to ground. However, when there is lightening, there may well be a lot of rain and a puddle of water around a stabilizer could make a lot of difference. Also, wet canvas could also make an effective path of discharge.

There are a lot of variables. The biggest variable is the likelihood of the event occurring in the fist place :sombraro: .

[ScouterMom]

I've been a tent camper all my life, and LOVE the sound of rain on canvas while I stay snug and cozy inside my canvas shelter..... which is why I can convert to camping in a PUP, but you will NEVER see me buying a hardside camper.  

when it's storming, I will listen to the weather radio, and I count thunder to lightening to get an idea of distance.  I will leave if it seems to be too close for too long.  Most storms travel thru pretty quickly) But lightening is much more likely to hit the taller trees around me, than it is to hit me, my tent, camper or car.

It's not so much electrical storms and lightening that scare me - but wind, trees and limbs.  However, I do take precautions - especially since a young scout was killed in  a wisconsin boy scout camp (Napawon) only one week after our troop stayed in the same campsite.  The campsite was in a stand of tall, tall pines - typical of Wisconsin campgrounds, and was extremely well groomed, very safe, deadwood had been cleared - it was a perfectly normal, live GREEN treetop that fell on the boys' tent and killed him while he slept - and it was WIND - not even rain or lightening, that caused the tree top to break off and fall.  The boys tent was not even under the trees, but was in a relatively clear space in the center of the campsite. they had, in short, done everything possible to make the campsite safe, and still fate caused a death.  The wind had just risen, it wasn't raining or lightening, the leaders were up and deciding whether they should wake the boys and go to the mess hall, when the tree fell in the middle of the night.

As a camp counselor myself in High School & College, I had the experience of having to evacuate camp with dozens of little girls in my unit many times.  Once, the storm came up so fast, we did not get much warning, and were still collecting girls from their platform tents (large double canvas tents erected on 10' X 14' wooden 'deck' frames), when the storm hit in full force and literally PICKED UP one of these deck tents and moved it about 10 feet, with the girls still in it!  the poles fell, the beds slid out and the girls were scared and wet, but they were not hurt other than scrapes & bruises. (The name of the unit site was, appropriately 'Windy Knoll'; the next year those two tents, exposed on the 'knoll' in the open, were moved to a lower and less exposed spot in wooded part of the unit.)

I once watched a 30' tall, perfectly healthy, triple trunk Box Elder tree simply fall over, on a clear calm day - 3 feet away from my mother as she planted flowers in our yard.  It was very surreal; seemed to happen in slow motion - and it landed  on our neighbor's deck.  Good thing the kids weren't out there at the time! Box Elders are known for being fast-growing and shallow-rooted, they break and fall easily.  we had over a hundred of them on the lot we bought, and cleared most of them out because they were dangerous. in the subdivision where my parents lived, there were thousands of them - and it was very common to have them fall on houses, cars and decks all year round.


In a tent, you have some choice on where to place your tent in your campsite, and can sometimes avoid trouble spots.  Because campers are usually restricted to paved or gravel 'pads' , you don't always get a choice where to place your camper. and most people like shade, so it's often under a tree!

Some parks are really good about clearing out easily downed 'trash' and softwood trees, and cleaning deadwood out of the campsites for safety. ( and to discourage campers from pulling down deadwood for firewood and hurting themselvs and the trees!)  Others leave everything just as it is, meaning it can fall on anything, anytime.

So I would be more concerned about falling limbs than ligtning!

laura

[JimS]

Bel Air, Maryland: Am I safe inside a pop-up camper? I have read how it was safe to be inside a car during a storm, but I have not seen any good information about the safety of campers.
John Jensenius: Pop-up campers should not be considered safe during a storm. They are just too open and don't provide a safe shell around you. You would be much safer to get into a hard-topped metal vehicle.  

This guy is a meteorologist and the link is below. Scroll to the bottom.
http://transcripts.usatoday.com/Chats/transcript.aspx?c=752
Guess it answers the question.

[campdaddy]

The few times we

[PJay]

I understand about lightening safety.  As a young girl, it terrified me!  I have since had at least two close calls and one indirect strike while in a lake that was struck.  

We have weathered (no pun intended) many a storm while in tents and in the pop-up.  My biggest concern has always been the trees, as I realize it is much bigger and heavier than either my tent or pop-up.  

While I can see waking kids up to sit on the floor in the middle of the pop-up, I fail to see how making a run for the car is safer!  No one has brought up the fact that during an active lightning storm you are NOT safe while exposed to direct strikes.  While waking kids up, unlocking the car, holding open the door, tossing in frightened and sleepy children, who are now wet and scared (btw, doesn't water conduct electricity?  We are running through what?) seems to be more hazardous. IMHO

I think there is a bit of a catch 22 when caught storm camping unawares.

[wavery]

I understand about lightening safety.  As a young girl, it terrified me!  I have since had at least two close calls and one indirect strike while in a lake that was struck.  

We have weathered (no pun intended) many a storm while in tents and in the pop-up.  My biggest concern has always been the trees, as I realize it is much bigger and heavier than either my tent or pop-up.  

While I can see waking kids up to sit on the floor in the middle of the pop-up, I fail to see how making a run for the car is safer!  No one has brought up the fact that during an active lightning storm you are NOT safe while exposed to direct strikes.  While waking kids up, unlocking the car, holding open the door, tossing in frightened and sleepy children, who are now wet and scared (btw, doesn't water conduct electricity?  We are running through what?) seems to be more hazardous. IMHO

I think there is a bit of a catch 22 when caught storm camping unawares.

I think that the 2 minutes that it takes you to get to a safer place, may be worth the time invested (unless it is only a 4 minute event). The risk changes very little whether you are inside the PU or walking in the rain. If someone is concerned about getting struck by lightening (and I'm not) they would be much safer (in their mind, at least) in a steel roofed vehicle than in the PU or in the rain.

I think that the concern about falling trees is much more realistic than the concern about lightening.