Get more BTU'S out of Stove???

[Wingdreamer]

I have a factory inside/outside stove that I use exclusively outdoors, attached to the side of the camper. Problem is, on a cool day, it takes forever to get water to boil, as it appears to be a low BTU stove. Is there a way to increase the flow of propane through these burners? Can I drill and enlarge the actual holes in the burners, or modify the valves, line or regulator to get more volume/heat?
Bottom line, how do you get more BTU's out of any propane stove or BBQ?
Thanks!!!

[Hoagie]

Definitely DO NOT drill out the holes in the burner. What is regulating the gas flow is the orifice which is in-line before the burners. The hole in this piece is precisely drilled to provide the gas to air mixture for you stove.
 
My advice would be to stop in at your local propone supplier. Not the gas station of the local big-box store, but the dealer with the tank farm and the trucks used to deliver propane to rural residences. Talk to them about what you want to do and see what they recommend. They may be able to switch out the orifice. It may be that you stove cannot be safely modified, in which case I can recommend the Camp Chef line of stoves as a great alternative for outdoor cooking.

[Recumbentman]

My understanding is the gas is controlled by the regulator located next to your propane tank. You would have to put a "Tee" at your tank and place a high volume regulator on one end and the original regulator at the other end and then a separate propane line to wherever you want it to go.
It would be a lot easier & cheaper to just buy a table top stove

[coach]

The BTU is limited by an orifice ~6500 BTU.

I wouldn't, but it could be precision drilled larger!
In/out stoves have limited BTU since they are so close to flammables.

Get a 'outdoor' stove, one designed to be solely used outdoor

[flyfisherman]

Yeah ... I hear ya!

First off, just toting that inside/outside stove in and out is a hassle!
Secondly, it's performance outside leaves much to be desired.

Our solution has been to use a Coleman two burner camp stove (a left over from the canoe/camping days), outside, where all the serious cooking is done ... either on the C/G picnic table or on a 2'X3' folding aluminum table that is set-up under the awning. The inside stove is used for perking that morning coffee (which also helps to take that morning chill out of the camper) or simply to heat something up, like soup for instance.

That inside/outside stove, like all RV appliances, is designed to operate at 11" WC pressure (28" WC pressure = 1 psi), whereas that Coleman camp stove does it's business at 10 psi. No comparison in performance, but it should be noted that the Coleman camp stove is never used inside the camper.  And the Coleman camp stove can operate using those 16oz disposable propane canisters or it has it's own regulator where it can be hooked directly to a regular refillable L/P tank. I carry an additional tank (in the truck) just for this purpose.

Here's a pic showing the Coleman camp stove set-up under the awning. You can see how we sprawl out all over that C/G picnic table ... all kinds of things are done there! Especially washing the dishes as you can see right in the fore ground.

[coach]

Please stop blaming low pressure for low BTU!

Many CampChef stoves offer 30,000 BTU/burner and are also low pressure. Or the 20,000 BTU furnace or ...

The in/out stove is limited due to the closeness of flammable material inside the PU.

A Coleman is a good alternative, not because it operates on 15 psi but because is has 10,000 BTU/burner versus the wimpy 6500 BTU of the in/out stove, costs about $50 and can be moved to block the wind!

[flyfisherman]

And, please, let's not get into any more voodoo physics on how your going to get more BTU performance out of less fuel. No doubt a better engineered stove with the right jets will out perform an inferior design, but all things equal, the more fuel at a higher psi will produce more BTU's.

[coach]

It is code that limits the BTU of the stove not pressure.

[flyfisherman]

No doubt that the Suburban cook stove that came with my Starcraft meets the criteria of the standard for rec recreation vehicles ANSI A119.2/AFPA 501C and the national gas code ANSI Z223.1, part of which sets the minimum gas supply pressure at 11" W.C. and the maximum at 14" W.C. ~  (no doubt fire safety is the primary goal of these codes), and I'm sure the good folks at Suburban have engineered their stove to deliver optimum performance while meeting that criteria. And I'm also sure that this stove can be "modified" to give more performance (BTU wise) but would exceed the limitations of those  codes.

Coleman, who has been in the camp cook stove making business for many years, I'll bet knows a thing or two about stove performance, fuel efficiency and BTU's as well. Since their propane camp stove I have (Model 5400 A 700) is not encumbered with the recreational vehicle code already listed, do they restrict the fuel intake to 11 to 14" W.C. pressure ...? Of course not, they engineered it to receive 20 times that amount of fuel and the result is the stove will blow the wind shields off the restricted intake stove. In the realm of propane fuel deliverance, higher psi equates to more fuel and more fuel equals to more BTU's; and I'm sure a good engineered burner/orifice set-up increses the performance of the proportioned fuel recieved.

[AustinBoston]

And, please, let's not get into any more voodoo physics on how your going to get more BTU performance out of less fuel. No doubt a better engineered stove with the right jets will out perform an inferior design, but all things equal, the more fuel at a higher psi will produce more BTU's.

The point is, it's more fuel, not higher PSI.  They are not the same thing.  I once had a small, single-burner camp stove that ran on a 1-lb bottle of propane, without a regulator - 150 to 250 PSI - and by design only put out 6,000 BTUs.

Now if you wanted to force more BTUs through a system designed for 11" WC, you could do that by jacking the PSI, but you could also do it by switching out the orifice.

Austin

[coach]

You don't need higher pressure to get higher BTU.

Many a bakery operates at even lower pressure than 11" wc (7" wc) and with a gas that has less BTU. They use large supply lines.

Now if the this high pressure existed at the burner (15 psi for Coleman) the flames would shoot out a long way!

Check how small the supply lines under the burners are!


RVIA adopts NFPA standards, NFPA 1192 Rec Vehicles

[flyfisherman]

The point is, it's more fuel, not higher PSI.  They are not the same thing.  I once had a small, single-burner camp stove that ran on a 1-lb bottle of propane, without a regulator - 150 to 250 PSI - and by design only put out 6,000 BTUs.

Now if you wanted to force more BTUs through a system designed for 11" WC, you could do that by jacking the PSI, but you could also do it by switching out the orifice.

Austin

Again ... no doubt a more efficient burner/orifice/jet assembly on a stove receiving "X" amount of fuel will out perform an inferior design receiving the same amount of fuel. However, a pound or a gallon of propane only contains so much energy (BTU's if you will) and if you deliver say one quarter of that amount in one hour vs half ... the later will obviously have delivered the more BTU's, with all things being equal.

As for your single burner stove, it's regulator was located right where you screwed in the disposable tank and only allowed so much fuel to come out of the tank and be consumed. In other words, it restricted the psi just as a propane regulator does on the camper. Like the water hose with 45 psi, barely crack the valve and only so much water comes out at a lower pressure. Open the valve fully and it comes out gang busters. In other words, it delivers more water. Yes, we can stick an adjustable nozzle on the end of the hose and do all kinds of things with it, but we need pressure to deliver optimum supply.

[flyfisherman]

You don't need higher pressure to get higher BTU.

Many a bakery operates at even lower pressure than 11" wc (7" wc) and with a gas that has less BTU. They use large supply lines.

Now if the this high pressure existed at the burner (15 psi for Coleman) the flames would shoot out a long way!

Check how small the supply lines under the burners are!


RVIA adopts NFPA standards, NFPA 1192 Rec Vehicles

Ther are other factors involved in your bakery example. Like my Suburban cook stove in the camper, it was designed to operate (max) at a certain level. As already posted, no doubt it can be bumped up in performance but that would be contrary to what it was designed for. But no way, under the sun, will it ever operate on the scale of the Coleman camp stove, with only 11" WC pressure. Impossible.

Now, my Coleman camp stove uses 10 psi ... you keep saying 15 (unless you know more than Coleman?) ~ it has a regulator on it to ensure the burners will receive that max amount ... and obviously that 10 psi can be regulated further by the burner valve. But the fact is that stove, as presently designed, can only deliver so much heat (BTU's). Maybe someone real knowledgeable could boost it a tad with bigger jets as it is presently set-up. And here's the point ... in order to achieve a higher BTU level, assuming one where to have the proper burner/orifice set-up, would be to increase the supply of fuel and with propane that would be a higher psi.

[Wingdreamer]

Wow, we're getting some great discussion on this topic, thanks! So far, I've learned that the manufacturer deliberately keeps the output on these stoves low as they are used inside or outside,close to the camper. Ok, makes sense. As I never use the stove indoors, it wouldn't be big deal for me,  not mount it on the outside, but rather set it on a table close to the camper. (I presently place a glass cutting board between the stove and the camper to deflect excessive heat and it has worked well for the last 2 years.) I'd still like to tweak the orifice a little (replace or slightly oversize it) if you think it will increase BTU output.

[AustinBoston]

Again ... no doubt a more efficient burner/orifice/jet assembly on a stove receiving "X" amount of fuel will out perform an inferior design receiving the same amount of fuel.

This is totally and utterly irrelvant to the point.  At 11" water column, you can deliver 50,000 BTUs.  It's not about efficiency.

However, a pound or a gallon of propane only contains so much energy (BTU's if you will) and if you deliver say one quarter of that amount in one hour vs half

And this has to do with PSI how?

As for your single burner stove, it's regulator was located right where you screwed in the disposable tank and only allowed so much fuel to come out of the tank and be consumed.  In other words, it restricted the psi just as a propane regulator does on the camper.

Misuse of the term "regulator."  W/R/T propane, a regulator sets the pressure, not the rate of flow.  This stove did not regulate pressure, only the size of the opening through which propane could flow.

Like the water hose with 45 psi, barely crack the valve and only so much water comes out...

OK so far...

...at a lower pressure.

Analogy FAIL.  You are comparing a valve to a regulator.  Different animals entirely.

1) The hose will build to 45 PSI if the nozzle is all the way off, no matter how little the valve is turned on.  The propane line will not exceed 11" WC, even with everything off.

2) The hose will drop to near zero pressure when the nozzle is turned all the way on.  The propane line will remain at 11" WC unless there is a catastrophic failure (i.e. major leak).

3) If the hose has a "Y" in it with two devices connected, turning one of the devices on and off will affect the amount of water going to the other device, because the pressure will fall when the device is on, and rise when it is off.  This does not happen with a propane regulator.  The regulator will allow more gas to flow when there is more demand in order to maintain the 11" W.C.

A valve (faucet) linits flow rate.  A regulator (below a certain flow rate) does not.  You will hit the tanks OPD leak limit before hitting that limit with an 11" W.C. regulator.  You would hit the very same limit if the regulator were for 10 or 15 PSI (220 or 330" W.C.).

Open the valve fully and it comes out gang busters. In other words, it delivers more water. Yes, we can stick an adjustable nozzle on the end of the hose and do all kinds of things with it, but we need pressure to deliver optimum supply.

And indoors, 11" WC is optimum pressure.

Austin